Contractor -- how to deal with him?

Michael G.

Ken,
Thanks for this information. I don't know if there was any permit for this or how I would have known that when I bought the house. I can ask him where he got the boiler, but I don't know if he's going to be straight with me. Should my home inspector and/or lawyer known about the permit issue and who would have evaluated his work afterwards to see if it was up to code?

Michael G.

Contractor problem -- how to deal with him

Over the summer, we bought a house in lower Westchester. After the contract was signed, the previous owners installed a brand new Dunkirk gas boiler to feed the steam and hydronic systems. We inspected the home BEFORE the new system had been installed.

When we turned on the system in October, the steam system didn't heat very well at all and the hydronic system didn't get hot either. After the contractor came in and told us that he really didn't know how to fix it because he thought it was all due to sludge, we hired a steam specialist to come evaluate it.

The assessment is that the new boiler is grossly oversized and the header of the steam system was installed incorrectly (not even accordingly to the manual). I have requested that the contractor contact the consultant that I hired in order to learn what needs to be done to fix it and why his approach didn't work. However I am not confident that he will be willing to fix it (certainly at minimal cost).

Anyone have any suggestions as to how to handle this situation in order to get it done and at the minimal cost?

Ken_40

Ooh.

Not pretty. Everybody loses on this one.

The contractor must have pulled permits. If not, Westchester has strong codes and stronger enforcement. Part of the code requires compliance with law, and manufacturer's installation requirements. But you never mentioned permits or inspection by the Westchester Code Enforcement Bureau, yet.

Please expound.

Once THAT baggage is disposed of, you should ask the installer to make it right. Assuming he won't, get the guy who did the consulting to get in touch with him and see if the supply-house sized the boiler, and if so, work a full credit for what you got for what you need and start from the new boiler up - NOT from the bad piping back.

Unknown

Mike...............

tough to disagree with anyone over this-one. We have all seen it before. Many people are going through the same thing, try what Ken said, and see where that leads. I "feel" for ya, and good luck!

Jeff Lawrence_25

I can't say

Been there, done that.

I received a call Friday. New owner of an existing townhouse. Pretty little job, passed the HVAC inspection with a "Damn fine looking changeout!" from the inspector.

New owner calls to get the gas turned on. Gas company 'person' comes out and refuses to turn on the gas because "There's no sediment trap in the gas line to the furnace."

It's been several weeks, so I don't remember anything other than the inspectors comments. I have to make another trip out there. As I recall, all we did was turn off the gas at the furnace, not re-pipe it.

So, this is a bit off topic. Sorry.

Ken_40

If he can't be straight with you...

Tell him perhaps he'd like to be straight with your attorney.

A phone call to whatever Westchester calls "code enforcement" would work. Give them your physical address, perhaps the lot and block number as well, and see if ANY permits were applied for in the past 24 months.

The response would be very interesting and perhaps form the base-line of anything you may need to do.

S Ebels

The right steps

Ken pretty much has it nailed. If you have a boiler installed with no permit, in a jurisdiction that requires permits, you may have a little leverage. As Ken said, call your code office, usually listed under the county or city building department in the phone book and see if there was a permit pulled on your job. If not, and your jurisdiction requires one, you can call the installer and hold that over his head.

I'd politely but plainly tell him the system doesn't work, that the piping is wrong and that the boiler is the wrong size. See what his response is, hopefully he's a stand up guy and will offer to work with you. If not, just tell him you wanted to give him a chance to correct these things BEFORE you reported him to the code officials.

Now, the only real thing you have to hold over his head there is that he failed to pull a permit. Most codes that I've seen simply state that a heating system must be capable of heating the occupied space to 70* at outdoor design temps. They don't give any guidelines other than that, as far as oversizing goes, so tread carefully or he may just pull a permit, correct the piping and you'll still be looking at a fuel sucking, oversized monster.
If he shows signs that he's willing to work with you, do a little bending yourself and work with him. If he tells you to basically buzz off, call your attorney and the code office. I don't have a lot of patience for that type. Best of luck to you and don't feel alone. The HVAC trade in particular seems to have more than its share of hacks.

The picture I have below is of a new install that we were called in to make run. We are the fourth contractor on this job which is best described as a veritable litany of what not to do for homeowners.

The steps were basically this.

1. Try to do it yourself, then....

2. Hire an unlicensed contractor without checking his credentials, then..........

3. Hire a licensed contractor who doesn't have a clue because he's stuck in the 1950's, then

4. Finally, call around to some friends, a couple supply houses, the local building and mechanical inspectors and ask for recommendations. BINGO!

Tony_23

What the heck is that ?

Looks worse than a 5th grade science project

I got a headache just looking at it for 20 seconds...

Kevin O. Pulver

Steve, out of respect for the deceased,

you should cover up that poor beautiful Knight.
It shouldn't have to suffer the indignity!
Kevin

Mark Hunt

Ken and I are never far apart


Fact is, the installing contractor was NEVER hired to do the job WRONG.

No statute of limitations on that kind of work in NY.

Ask him nice twice.

Then...........let your attorney do the talking.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

S Ebels

Repair? the piping?

Talked to the homeowner this evening. He is still holding out hope that we can salvage most if not all of the piping. He told me flat out he figures that we can just switch a couple pipes around and it will work like a champ.
Couple hundred bucks should take care of it.

Aye Carumba!!!

I'm begining to see why this happened in the first place.

Looking at it first hand, I think sawzall surgery on everything between the boiler and the pex manifolds would be in order. I'll give him a quote tomorrow and see what happens. I don't think it'll be very pretty.

Cosmo_3

hee hee

Isn't it funny?

He is using the same attitude that got him in trouble in the first place!!!!

I see a lot of those also.

Get the patient to sign the consent form, and ask the nurse for the sawzall with a standard 18 tpi blade....STAT!

Good Luck


Cosmo

Weezbo

i am with Tony WTFIT )

and i Know Cosmos advise is salient *~/:)