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circulator direction

Installed by real professial BOILER company? Doesn't looks like it, installed by forced air company or trekkies....

Comments

  • anthony_18
    anthony_18 Member Posts: 8
    circulator direction

    hi
    to heat 4000sq ft house have 170,000btu hot water system. six zones with a combination of 6 zone valves and 3 circulators. the circulators are installed in the return line. the system works fine but i have been reading that the circulators should be in the supply side.Should i have the system redone to put circulators in the supply side?

    thanks all!
  • John Ketterman
    John Ketterman Member Posts: 187


    It does not matter a whole lot whether they are on the return or supply side. But they should be pumping away from the expansion tank: this will reduce the need to bleed radiators. If the system is running fine and the radiators have no air in them, don't change anything.

    People used to believe that it was better for the pumps to have them see slightly cooler water and so run cooler. But that makes no difference.
  • Empire_2
    Empire_2 Member Posts: 2,343
    I agree J....

    The idea is to present the loop or loop's with the pressure diff out to the system. It aids in air absorption and elimination. Air scoops are a must in my book.

    Mike T.
  • with built in air scoop

    Many years that Weil Mclain having the built in air scoop in their boilers, after learning and did what Dan say about pumping away... What a world of differnce and happy customers...
  • anthony_18
    anthony_18 Member Posts: 8


    Hi
    Thank-you for your reply.
    The boiler is a Weil Mclain with its own circulator. There is a large 2" by 5ft manifold where the zone valves and circulators come off. Right now the expansion tank is in the boiler circuit on the supply side. It was originally on the return side of the boiler circuit, but it seemed that all the other circulators would pump into it. Where should it be?

    Now the only real problem is that you can hear the water flow through the baseboards. Years ago, I stopped the water hammer by removing one spring in each of the zone valves.

    Thank-you for your time and expertise.

    Anthony
  • Empire_2
    Empire_2 Member Posts: 2,343
    Take a snap shot

    Give all the info you can. Take a picture etc. pressure on boiler, etc..

    Mike T.
  • as Mike T says

    We Wallies need some centerfold pixs of ur boiler system, can ya supply us some?
  • John Ketterman
    John Ketterman Member Posts: 187


    As everyone else has said, your written description is confusing, a photo is needed. But if your only problem is noise during flow, maybe an analysis of your system piping is not needed.

    (a) If you have a glug-glug noise, baseboard is infamous for trapping air. Often the only way to get it out is to bleed several buckets of water...don't just bleed until water comes out, but continue long after that.

    (b) if you have a rushing noise, you probably have too much flow. Many systems are over-circulated. Since you have many zones, each zone is probably small and might work fine with a much smaller pump, and save electricity too.
  • anthony_18
    anthony_18 Member Posts: 8


    hi
    Sorry for the confusion.Enclosed are pictures.
    on the return side are 4 circulators,pumping into a large pipe. on the supply side are 6 zone valves comming off the large pipe. 2 zone valves per circulator. then there is a loop off the boiler, with its own internal circulator.the expansion tank has been tried in several location in the loop off the boiler.it seems best in the supply side of the loop,before the loop joins in to the large pipe.

    the problem is really a rushing noise in the baseboards. it can wake you up at night.the circulators are Qrundfus type UP-15-42. there are valves above the circulators.

    thanks
    Anthony
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Looks like

    you could get reception from Mars from the foil pipe insulation! Too funny!

    I see a couple of things..your primary/secondary bridge seems a little spread out in the T dept. You may have a some funky flow issues happening. Is the primary 3/4"? can't tell, but looks small. Change that Hyvent! It is hopelessy waterlogged and is doing nothing-air can't get out.

    Pumps will always work better on the supply, and your HW ZV's will always work better on the return. making that happen will be a step in the right direction, the pump relo more important in regards to quiet water flow.
  • Empire_2
    Empire_2 Member Posts: 2,343
    Double wow

    I am surprised the thing works. 1st). Your boiler needs to move 17 gpm just to convey its load in to the building and there is only a 1 " line there. You are pumping directly at the tank,.....16, Since water will take the path of least resistance it is probably flowing right by the boiler connection. This boiler will probably not last much longer.

    Now is the time to call a professional. I can count about 7 problems just in the pic's alone. You would be better off for temporary heat to turn those pumps 90* and pump away from the boiler and it's expansion tank. This is not a fix though.

    Mike T.
  • anthony_18
    anthony_18 Member Posts: 8


    hi
    the system is 6 years old. it was intalled by a heating professional.
  • anthony_18
    anthony_18 Member Posts: 8


    hi
    would somebody like to draw the correct way. i will take it back to the original heating contractor. maybe they might like to fix their work?

    thanks
    anthony
  • For free???

    or for fee??

    You are an unfortunate customer.

    We have many sayings in this business, and the one that comes to mind on your project a driect quote attribuateable to Jeff Young, and it goes "It's not a matter of "You got what you paid for", so much as it is a matter of "You didn't get what you didn't pay for and now in order to get what you really wanted, you're going to have to pay more".

    In our business, as professional business men we learn how to do it right the first time, or we pay to have it done the second time out of our pockets.

    In your case, you have a poorly thought out, poorly designed, poorly installed system that is causing you pain. And in order to rectify the situation, you need a professional to design a proper system from scratch. Oh sure, you can probably salvage some of the components, but in order to guarantee performance, you are going to have to pay someone to design a fix for your system.

    It's unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little too. When you pay too much, you lose a little money.....that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The Common Law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot...it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    - John Ruskin - 1819-1900

    ME
  • anthony_18
    anthony_18 Member Posts: 8


    Hi All:
    Thanks for your suggestions. The original plummer has agreed to turn the circulators and the zone valves 180 degrees.but I have some questions.
    If its just a turn around then the flow in the loops would be as diagram A (attached). the boiler loop would stay the same. Should the boiler loop be reversed as in diagram B, to keep with the original flow pattern. Which flows Better!
    Should the boiler loop pipe be increased. It is 1" now.

    thanks All
    Anthony
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