Burnham Mega Steam

Jim_83

What am I doing wrong? What don’t I understand?

I go the Burnham site and see the MegaSteam boiler. Then as instructed on the web page, I click on the picture of the MegaSteam boiler to learn more about the MegaSteam.

When I click on the MegaSteam boiler, I go to this url http://www.burnham.com/mpo/index.htm and get what I think is the literature for the MPO water because the boilers referenced have an afue of 87 percent while the MegaSteam has an afue of 86 percent. I looked at a few documents and I can't find anything about a steam boiler. They talk about a water boiler.

Can you please post the url for the MegaSteam boiler?

Thank you.

Jim_83

I am trying to get some information on the new Burnham MegaSteam boiler shown on their web site. I click on the picture as instructed but it looks like I am getting information on their MPO boiler.

How do I get the information on the MegaSteam boiler at Burnham's web site.

Is the MegaSteam available?

Thank you.

Unknown

Jim

If you go to the Burnham wesite you will see verbage on the center of the screen regarding the MegaSteam boiler. When you click on that it takes you to another page where you can download literature, Technical Info and even the I&O manual. The URL of that link does actually say MPO in it but it truly is the MST or MegaSteam page. (I'll have them fix that tomorrow.) I really think that you have already been there and didn't realize it because this boiler looks remarkably like the MPO.

The MSG or Megasteam boilers are now available for order through you local distributor. They should begin shipping out in just a few weeks. Be patient as the demand has already exceeded the supply of these. This boiler is the first steam boiler in the industry to carry a 5 year internal waterside corrosion warranty in addition to the 10 year warranty. This is a lot to do with the flue gasses being only in contact with the water surfaces and not the steam chest surfaces. The three-pass design ensures this. Hope this helps.

http://www.burnham.com/mpo/index.htm

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Jim_83

Hi Glenn,
You are correct, I have been visiting the Burnham web site waiting for the announcement of the Mega Steam.

But, I think the literature I am pointed to is for the MPO water boiler. The literature says hot water boiler and when I look at the boiler ratings they say 'i=b=r water ratings'. Look in the color brochure, it says hot water heating comfort. The installation instructions look like they are for a hot water boiler.

But, what do I know? I'm just a homeowner.

Thank you.

Unknown

Jim

The link to the MegaSteam was just actiavted in the past day or so and does indeed reference the MegaSteam Steam boiler. All of the ratings are IBR Steam ratings. Take another look at the website and it should be there. Thanks for the interest!

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Jim_83

What am I doing wrong?

I go the Burnham site and see the MegaSteam boiler. Then as instructed on the web page, I click on the picture of the MegaSteam bolier to learn more about the MegaSteam and I go the MPO literature.

When I click on the MegaSteam boiler, I go to this url http://www.burnham.com/mpo/index.htm and get what I think is the literature for the MPO water because the boilers referenced have an afue of 87 percent while the MegaSteam has an afue of 86 percent. I looked at few documents and I can't find anything about a steam bolier. They talk about a water boiler.

Can you please post the url for the MegaSteam boiler?

Thank you.

Dave_4

Megasteam

Try this Jim, Just went on their site and was able to open up the lit. I can't wait to find a home for one of these baby's!!

http://www.burnham.com/pdfs/CurrentPDFfiles/MEGA_LIT.pdf

Al_19

Try these:

MegaSteam

Color Brochure

Installation, Operating & Service Instructions

Warranty

Al_19

Links.....

a href="http://www.burnham.com/mpo/index.htm" >MegaSteam

a href="http://www.burnham.com/pdfs/CurrentPDFfiles/MEGA_LIT.pdf" >Color Brochure

Al_19

Links.....

MegaSteam

Color Brochure

Installation, Operating & Service Instructions

Warranty

Rebecca_3

MegaSteam url

Hi Jim

The url has been corrected for the MegaSteam, sorry for any confusion :-)

http://www.burnham.com/megasteam/index.htm

Unknown

URL to MegaSteam Literature

I spoke to Rebecca this morning and the link to the MegaSteam has been fixed. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. Thanks so much for the input and very positive interest in this product. It's been an exciting year indeed! Oops! Didn't even notice that she had responded to this up above! Thanks again Rebecca for all you do!

http://www.burnham.com/megasteam/index.htm

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Patrick North

Gas?

To whom should I direct my bowing and scraping for a gas burning model?

Patrick

Unknown

No Gas

At least for the time being there will be no gas-fired burners on this boiler. That's not to say that somewhere down the road that won't happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. Other than commercial boilers, I have never seen a gas burner configured for any of our oil boilers in the 30 years I have been affiliated with Burnham. But never say never as that could change!

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Patrick North

That's disappointing.

Just a homeowner here, but I don't understand why. From my lay perspective and lmited knowledge, it doesn't seem like there should be that much of a difference from a manufacturering standpoint (I guess there is!). I do understand there's plenty involved in R&D, etc., but still. I live in a historical district populated by lots of steam boilers (surrounded by old Victorian homes) and I know of none that are oil burners. A regional peculiarity, I imagine, but it just seems like you guys would want to offer both, if only for increased market share. I'll be replacing two boilers soon and am not sure I'll want to add an oil tank installation to what I'm sure will be a pretty salty bill to start with. I wonder if it's assumed that folks in my situation will switch to take advantage of the efficiency ratings? Will a high efficiency steam boiler be a separate product? Maybe the MegaSteamer will prompt another maker to enter the fray with a gas burning model?
So Mr. Stanton, should I start collecting signatures?

Half kidding
Patrick

Unknown

Patrick

Part of the reasons involve the fact that we already have a very good gas steam boiler that performs well and has an AFUE rating of up to 82.5% or the Independence boiler. The other reason involves the cost comparison involved with equipping the MegaSteam with a power type Gas Burner and extra safety devices required versus the cost of the Independence. We all live in a very price conscious society where a simple $50.00 difference in equipment price can make the difference in what a homeowner or installer ends up buying. Granted there are a few top notch installers out there that frequent these sites that can always up sell something they believe in but the same doesn't account for the vast majority. Simply a marketing issue.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Patrick North

Oh well.

That's a fair answer- I appreciate the candor. And yeah, I may be buying that oil tank...

Thanks,
Patrick

Jim_83

bad link ?

Thank you Rebeccaa. I can get the MegaSteam lierature using the url you supplied.

But, I just tried, on the Burnham web site, cliking on the MegaSteam bolier to get to the MegaStean literature and it still sends me the MPO water boiler.

Perhaps the change has not replicated to all your Internet servers?

Thank you.

Jim_83

bad link ?

Thank you Rebecca. I can get the MegaSteam lierature using the url you supplied.

But, I just tried, on the Burnham web site, cliking on the MegaSteam bolier to get to the MegaStean literature and it still sends me the MPO water boiler.

Perhaps the change has not replicated to all your Internet servers?

Thank you.

Al_19

Links.....

Jim,

Try the links I posted for you last night. They take you right to the literature.

Jim_83

Thank you Al. I did use the links and got the information I needed.

In my last post I was trying to get Burnham's attention so they could fix their link if it is broken. I am sure there are a lot of homeowners like me that want to get the literature on the MegaSteam and don't know about this site where they can get great advice on their heating problems.

Thank you.

Al_19

It's an impressive looking boiler, isn't it?

Unknown

Jim

I believe that the issue of your computer going to the original MPO site may have something to do with your cookies. If you had been visiting the site before the MST was posted on there earlier this week, your computer would have sent a cookie and saved it. When we posted the MST it inadvertently carried over the MPO URL address and your computer may have been pulling it out of memory somehow. Maybe I'm all wrong about that as these compters never seem to amaze me. All I do know is that everyone else seemed to be getting the Steam Info when you were not.

Glenn

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Jim_83

I deleted all my cookies and retried clicking on the MegaSteam boiler on your web page and I get the MegaSteam literature.

Thank you Glenn!

Steamhead (in transit)

But

the Independence could never be set up to burn oil, whereas the MegaSteam could use either oil or gas if certified with a power gas burner. This puts the owner in charge of what fuel is burned.

It's all about competition- whose fuel is cheapest per BTU? I can picture the gas utilities' CEOs whining about lost revenue... no more golden parachutes.....

I know I've said this before, but a gas MegaSteam would be a real winner. And when the oil MegaSteam is finally available in Baltimore, All Steamed Up Inc. has some customers who want it.

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Will_5

Are they Available?

Anyone know if these boilers have made it to the distributors yet? I find myself looking for a steam job to try one of these puppies out.

Unknown

Mike

They are being built as we speak and will be ready to ship to the distributors very shortly. All we ask is to be patient and they will be there sooner than you think. Several distributors already have them on order and we are working diligently to build them.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Dave_4

soon enough

Thanks for the info Glenn, I'll keep a watch out for them.

Patrick North

I don't get it.

> the Independence could never be set up to burn

> oil, whereas the MegaSteam could use either oil

> or gas if certified with a power gas burner. This

> puts the owner in charge of what fuel is burned.

> It's all about competition- whose fuel is

> cheapest per BTU? I can picture the gas

> utilities' CEOs whining about lost revenue... no

> more golden parachutes.....

>

> I know I've said

> this before, but a gas MegaSteam would be a real

> winner. And when the oil MegaSteam is finally

> available in Baltimore, All Steamed Up Inc. has

> some customers who want it.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 367&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Steamhead, what does this mean in layman's terms? Do you mean that a third party might create a gas burner that could be used with this boiler? (the homeowner then buys a boiler and an aftermarket burner) And if this is the case, why wouldn't Burnham do this "in house?" What would it take to have the burner "certified?" Differences in fuel prices notwithstanding, it sounds like it could be cheaper to install that oil tank!
Just curious,
Patrick

Patrick North

I don't get it.

Steamhead, what does this mean in layman's terms? Do you mean that a third party might create a gas burner that could be used with this boiler? (the homeowner then buys a boiler and an aftermarket burner) And if this is the case, why wouldn't Burnham do this "in house?" What would it take to have the burner "certified?" Differences in fuel prices notwithstanding, it sounds like it could be cheaper to install that oil tank!
Just curious,
Patrick

Unknown

Patrick

What it all comes down to is dollars and good sense. There are certainly power gas burners out there that would work in our residential Oil-oriented products and could be equipped and configured at the factory. The big qustion about this is whether the consumer would be willing to pay the additional several hundred "Dollar" expense for this boiler with a gas burner and extra related safety devices versus an atmospheric type dedicated Gas boiler such as the Independence which is of slightly lower efficiency. Reality dictates that some folks like Steamhead will always be able to upsell to the MegaSteam but our "Sense" tells us that the majority will select the more competitively priced atmospheric boiler. The unknown is whether the folks that can upsell the gas power burner model will be numerous enough to justify the cost of development, testing and certification. They are timely and costly processes.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Steamhead (in transit)

Another thing, Glenn

I've seen gas steamers that rotted above the waterline just like we've seen on oil steamers. The Mega-Steam design, as you say, should prevent this. I'd sure like to offer this to our gas-fired customers as well as our oil-fired ones.

I really believe that with its better efficiency and expected longevity increase, many gas customers would want the Mega-Steam over the Independence. You'll always be able to sell the Independence to landlords.

As a side note, today I talked to the manager of the R.E. Michel branch we usually use and he wasn't even aware of the Mega-Steam. Now that he is, he is supposed to be contacting the area Burnham rep to get them into the branch.

The wheels are turning, who will be the first to post a Mega-Steam install on the Wall?

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Jim_101

How does the MegaSteam

increase it's corrosion resistance and longevity? Is it just thicker cast iron?

Steamhead (in transit)

It's

built into the design. Glenn, how about posting the same thing here you did on OTT about this?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

OK

> built into the design. Glenn, how about posting

> the same thing here you did on OTT about this?

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 367&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



The following is a copy of a post I placed on OilTechTalk to an individual that has had more than of his share of internal corrosion issues where he is located in the South Shore area of Massachusetts.

Regarding all of the exchanges that we have had over the past couple of years, I would like to clarify the results. As discussed in the past, you have had more than your share of V7 and V8 steam leakers due to internal corrosion. As also discussed, we have paid VERY close attention to this occuring out in the field and have taken several steps to find out why. We have taken water samples from several of the jobsites where this has occured as well as a real close look at the possible contributory things that the system itself can cause. I have discussed most of these things here and at other sites.

As discussed in previous posts, yes things like uninsulated mains, lack of venting and unattended excessive water makeup can kill steam boilers rather quickly regardless of the brand. One of the primary reasons you folks in your part of Mass. see this happening more often also has to due with the fact that Burnham Steam boilers were installed with greater frequency than other areas so just by percentages you will be seeing more failures. As I stated in all of the previous posts, we have not been resting on our laurels waiting for this problem to go away. We have been exploring the whys of this by sending engineers to your area and to a handful of other areas where this happened with greater frequency than anywhere else. We also brought several of these boilers back and sent them out to independent laboratories for analysis (a very expensive procedure I must add). Most of the people that monitor these sites can support me in saying that they may not see this happening in their geographical areas.

With that in mind, we concentrated on what may be different about your geographical area than other areas where it does not happen. The one common denominator happens to be the water. It was not so much the water itself but what is in the water which ended up being higher than normal chloride levels. This is also something that we have been closely monitoring regarding stainless steel Indirect Heaters failing sooner than desired. With the indirects we began providing glass lined tanks to use where clhoride levels are high. With the steam boilers the answer is now MegaSteam.

What we did find is that in areas with higher than normal chloride levels a process was occuring within the steam dome of the boiler called "Temperature Induced Chloride Activated Graphitic Corrosion". This reaction is something that begins with high chlorides in the water and is accelerated by heat or contact of the vertical and upper horizontal surfaces in the steam dome with the flue gasses. It is the contact with the flue gasses that triggers this process and once the ball gets rolling you just can't stop it. Yes it happens with other brands of steam boilers as well but possibly less often for reasons I will explain.

Now you ask, what is going to make the MegaSteam different than any other boiler out there currently being used for steam? The difference is the flue gas passageway design. This is a horizontal passageway three pass boiler where all contact with flue gasses is below the steam surfaces. There is absolutely no flue gas contact with the cast iron surfaces that have steam on the other side. If you take away the HEAT you no longer have "Heat Induced Chloride Activated Graphitic Corrosion".

You also ask why this is not happening to some of the older boilers that have been out there for years and years as well as other brands of similar vertical pinned flue design. As far as the newer ones go, they are also susceptible but due to variances in exposed surfaces, pin location and iron thickness it just takes longer. They are all prone due to flue gasses being on the other side of the section walls and dome. As far as the older boilers are concerned, the wall thicknesses were much greater and the exchange of flue gas temperature was not as pronouced due to wider passageways and ribbed surfaces instead of pinned surfaces. In otherwords they just were not as darn efficient. Most of the flue gas temperature was simply going up the chimney.

We also took a close look at the design of some of the much, much older boilers thant have been out there operating on steam for say 50 to 100 years. Many of these had a common denominator as well. That common denominator is the rear outlet for flue gasses below the water level. They were of either 2-pass or 3-pass design, not very efficient due to the area of the passageways, but none the less below the water line. With all of this in mind we are now glad to introduce the MegaSteam boiler. It is the most efficient steam boiler out there and with protection from the Chloride Activated Corrosion by design....three pass flue gas flow. The testing we have done with this has shown no signs whatsoever of the trigger that starts the chloride corrosion process rolling......heat. That's why we are also the first company to step up to the plate with a warranty that covers internal corrosion.

Keep in mind that even with the MegaSteam system issues such as uninsulated mains, lack of venting and unmonitored excessive water makeup still have to be paid attention to. We address this in the I&O manual and even go as far as to show a water meter installed on the makeup water line in the I&O drawings. Sorry for the longer than lengthy post and explanation, but I thought you were entitled to it. Thanks for your continued support Heaterman and others.

The distributors now have their pricing and related information and several have orders in already. These are in production and some may begin to roll ot as early as this week. They will all be shipped out Knocked Down with an assembled block, cartoned jacket and all other related items all enclosed on the same pallet. All I ask is to be patient as the reaction to this boiler being introduced has been outstanding. You will see them very shortly. For now they will all be equipped with the Beckett AFG with other burner options to follow. Thanks again!


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Unknown

OK

The following is a copy of a post I placed on OilTechTalk to an individual that has had more than of his share of internal corrosion issues where he is located in the South Shore area of Massachusetts.

Regarding all of the exchanges that we have had over the past couple of years, I would like to clarify the results. As discussed in the past, you have had more than your share of V7 and V8 steam leakers due to internal corrosion. As also discussed, we have paid VERY close attention to this occuring out in the field and have taken several steps to find out why. We have taken water samples from several of the jobsites where this has occured as well as a real close look at the possible contributory things that the system itself can cause. I have discussed most of these things here and at other sites.

As discussed in previous posts, yes things like uninsulated mains, lack of venting and unattended excessive water makeup can kill steam boilers rather quickly regardless of the brand. One of the primary reasons you folks in your part of Mass. see this happening more often also has to due with the fact that Burnham Steam boilers were installed with greater frequency than other areas so just by percentages you will be seeing more failures. As I stated in all of the previous posts, we have not been resting on our laurels waiting for this problem to go away. We have been exploring the whys of this by sending engineers to your area and to a handful of other areas where this happened with greater frequency than anywhere else. We also brought several of these boilers back and sent them out to independent laboratories for analysis (a very expensive procedure I must add). Most of the people that monitor these sites can support me in saying that they may not see this happening in their geographical areas.

With that in mind, we concentrated on what may be different about your geographical area than other areas where it does not happen. The one common denominator happens to be the water. It was not so much the water itself but what is in the water which ended up being higher than normal chloride levels. This is also something that we have been closely monitoring regarding stainless steel Indirect Heaters failing sooner than desired. With the indirects we began providing glass lined tanks to use where clhoride levels are high. With the steam boilers the answer is now MegaSteam.

What we did find is that in areas with higher than normal chloride levels a process was occuring within the steam dome of the boiler called "Temperature Induced Chloride Activated Graphitic Corrosion". This reaction is something that begins with high chlorides in the water and is accelerated by heat or contact of the vertical and upper horizontal surfaces in the steam dome with the flue gasses. It is the contact with the flue gasses that triggers this process and once the ball gets rolling you just can't stop it. Yes it happens with other brands of steam boilers as well but possibly less often for reasons I will explain.

Now you ask, what is going to make the MegaSteam different than any other boiler out there currently being used for steam? The difference is the flue gas passageway design. This is a horizontal passageway three pass boiler where all contact with flue gasses is below the steam surfaces. There is absolutely no flue gas contact with the cast iron surfaces that have steam on the other side. If you take away the HEAT you no longer have "Heat Induced Chloride Activated Graphitic Corrosion".

You also ask why this is not happening to some of the older boilers that have been out there for years and years as well as other brands of similar vertical pinned flue design. As far as the newer ones go, they are also susceptible but due to variances in exposed surfaces, pin location and iron thickness it just takes longer. They are all prone due to flue gasses being on the other side of the section walls and dome. As far as the older boilers are concerned, the wall thicknesses were much greater and the exchange of flue gas temperature was not as pronouced due to wider passageways and ribbed surfaces instead of pinned surfaces. In otherwords they just were not as darn efficient. Most of the flue gas temperature was simply going up the chimney.

We also took a close look at the design of some of the much, much older boilers that have been out there operating on steam for say 50 to 100 years. Many of these had a common denominator as well. That common denominator is the rear outlet for flue gasses below the water level. They were of either 2-pass or 3-pass design, not very efficient due to the area of the passageways, but none the less below the water line. With all of this in mind we are now glad to introduce the MegaSteam boiler. It is the most efficient steam boiler out there and with protection from the Chloride Activated Corrosion by design....three pass flue gas flow. The testing we have done with this has shown no signs whatsoever of the trigger that starts the chloride corrosion process rolling......heat. That's why we are also the first company to step up to the plate with a warranty that covers internal corrosion.

Keep in mind that even with the MegaSteam system issues such as uninsulated mains, lack of venting and unmonitored excessive water makeup still have to be paid attention to. We address this in the I&O manual and even go as far as to show a water meter installed on the makeup water line in the I&O drawings. Sorry for the longer than lengthy post and explanation, but I thought you were entitled to it. Thanks for your continued support Heaterman and others.

The distributors now have their pricing and related information and several have orders in already. These are in production and some may begin to roll ot as early as this week. They will all be shipped out Knocked Down with an assembled block, cartoned jacket and all other related items all enclosed on the same pallet. All I ask is to be patient as the reaction to this boiler being introduced has been outstanding. You will see them very shortly. For now they will all be equipped with the Beckett AFG with other burner options to follow. Thanks again!


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

ttekushan_3

Yes we have no oil

Same thing in the Cleveland area. Thousands of older homes with steam, and virtually all natural gas. Cleveland and NE ohio is sitting on top of huge gas reserves and was piped for natural gas starting in the 19th century. So heating oil use in the steam heat areas around here is nil.

-Terry

p.s. My grandmother's house was built in 1900. One gas burner, one oil burner installed in parallel at construction. The builder of the house was said to be wary of this "natural gas for heating" thing. The oil burner was never really used much, and not at all since about 1945 when she purchased the house.

Jim_101

Glenn, I understand the

problem with "Temperature Induced Chloride Activated Graphitic Corrosion" and excessive make up water contributing to boiler corrosion.

But, how do uninsulated mains and vents not working properly contribute to excessive boiler corrosion? Do these change the chemistry of the water? Or do they contribute to excessive make water?

Unknown

Jim

As steam passes through uninsulated mains that are exposed to cooler than normal basements, it will condense or collapse at a much greater rate than in an insulated pipe. This condensate when exposed to CO2 that has not yet vented due to inadequate or non-functional main vents will begin to return to the boiler as Carbonic Acid and eventually lower the PH of the boiler water to a very acidic level. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Jim_101

Glenn, Does

"Temperature Induced Chloride Activated Graphitic Corrosion" occur with gas boilers too? I am asking because I may consider replacing my oil boiler with a gas fired boiler if gas boilers are not affected by this corrosion problem.

Steamhead (in transit)

They weren't lab-tested

but I've seen what might have been the same thing on gas steamers. Glenn, am I right in believing the heat is the issue here rather than the fuel?

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