State of the RFH industry

Josh_10

A good portion of the revenue for my business comes from fixing problem systems. I see it all. Missing pumps, manually set mixing valves, velocity noise from no differential pressure by-pass, buckled wood floors, and no outdoor reset.

One phrase that hurts me is "how much would a furnace cost"? OUCH!! Of course I explain that it isn't the norm and the original install is to blame. Then I give the HO an estimate to make their comfort dreams come true and they reply "can I still get an estimate for a furnace"? OUCH!!

At any rate there over 10 companies claiming to do radiant within a 15 mile radius of me. Some good, most bad.

Question is the following: Are supply house salesman hurting the industry by promoting hydronics to underqualified installers or for that matter guys who have never tried? With so many folks disapointed and believe me there are a ton, are we going to continue to grow or slow?

Just some thoughts. Not picking on anyone. I certainly don't mind the extra revenue.

Josh

joel_19

Welcome

welcome yung grasshopper to my world of pain and oppertunity. Yes I agree supply house guys aren't helping but there is plenty of blame to go around. They will sell to anybody qualified or not. But so will any internet supplier. And who decides who's qualified or not??
Homeowners can also be blamed for believing insane web claims and or highering the cheap guy.

The oppertunity is there for you young grasshopper to make money and take the lead to help turn things around.
Can you walk on the rice paper without kinking the pex?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mike T., Swampeast MO

You're seeing the result of emphasis on components--not systems!!!

You're also witnessing the continuing decline of craftsmanship in this country.

J.C.A._3

Not if I can help it !

Coming here makes things MUCH easier to understand, if only we could get more folks to check it out...THEY CAN LEARN TOO !

The rules of thumb...are just that. Why not invest in some training and learning outside of "what the supply house guy tells you", and on YOUR time?

Truth be told,I spend almost as much time learning as I do installing anything...not just radiant systems. That is MY choice...because I know what almost everyone here does, we don't have to give shotty service to earn a living...and most of all... if we have a question, we have the BEST board to bounce them off in the industry.

LEARN, LEARN, LEARN....If you know it....TEACH! Chris

Josh_10

Chris I am with you man! I learned this industry so I am sure anyone can.

But let's not jump the gun. Let's not install before the training. Let's learn it all first then go toss in a GB142.

I wouldn't install a well pump just because my supply house guy says it's easy! I would have to see it done first and serve an apprenticeship just like I did with Hydronics and Steam.

Jeff Lawrence_25

It's not the sales people

A recent call from a new customer told me that HWBB 'stained' the walls, as told by a co-worker, so they had the BB ripped out.

It's not just the supply house people, it's the general public also.

Christian Egli_2

Trick to keeping it simple

The ideal world where everyone is blissfully happy does not exist - as such - aren't we at the very least always wishing for the weather to change? Here in Ohio, we are!

We get a lot of our hot water cues from Europe, where it seems everyone should be living life with a wide grinning smile; they're not, in spite of being surrounded by radiators and radiant panels... I think it's because they don't know residential steam. Too bad.

I have a theory

The more advanced and riddled with gadgets and features a system is, the more we'll complain about any shortcomings, ever more so slight. The corollary of this of course, is that often the simplest things in life provide the greatest pleasures.

Just think of who really enjoys the complexities of any new legal document or the tax code. If the instruction manual for a hydronic heating system reaches that level in complication (which some dangerously do) then it's no wonder you'll find frustration all along the way.

People in western Europe seem to be overwhelmingly in complain mode about their highly complicated and regulated heat situation (in a mild climate, mind you, that can be comfortably survived with no heat...), as opposed to here, where most homes have simple systems that are happily ignored and only a gross failure will licit a complain.

So Josh, at least the customer whose systems you rehabilitated are happy with you, that's a quite a goal all on itself, and if it weren't for the poor work of others, you'd only have your smile to sell.

Regardless of who sells what to whom, I think overly complex hot water schemes will go the way of the variable vacuum with differential control and modulating valves that seemed to exist for a short while in residential steam. Same thing with the grande double extravagante expresso latte, there will always be plenty more room for plain coffee, plain hot water and good old plain steam, and oh, plain hot air. Cold? ON. Hot? OFF. Simple, ahh!

But I love the mystery

Weezbo

it may seem odd buh radiant floors have been around a While.

the last few miles of pipe in a building should convince you of that. some contractors here probably spinn in hundreds of miles every year been doing it and will likely to continue to do so. be more optomistic*~/:) winters comming and we need to get our Spring starts in...
look forward , maybe do new work let go of the past and go forward. the improvements this year may seem like old hat in ten ...twenty ...years.

Unknown

one of my supply house

One of my supply house won't even sell to anyone off the street, nor sell boilers or heating related equipment to plumbers... As they are protecting the ingerty(sp) of professial installers while other supply houses don't give a s**** who they sell it to... Sure the aforementioned costs aliitle more, they do a great job of heat loss and designing the system. They sure helps me corrected the other companies screwed up projects...

KAG

People are different

People are different in their view of comfort. Some people believe that if they spend one weekend a month cutting, stocking and burning wood it cost them nothing, but time. And after all our time is FREE!!!!!

I am always amazed at how people veiw things so differently. You know "one man's garbage is another fortune". But that is why you can buy a B/W T.V. or a plasma-high def. Wait, do they still make B/W T.V.?????

Leo G_99

It is funny

I have installed various styles of systems from electric boilers with one heat output, to systems with in/out sensors, wall, floor and tub surrounds full of tubing.

What is comfort? To those of us in the know, we know that comfort is having sensors and modulationing and condencendingling and all these wonderful fuel saving, temperature responding, automatic systems at our beck and call.

But it seems to most of my clients, comfort is all about warm feet!!!!!

Leo G

Plumbob_3

Glad to see this thread

In n. Idaho wet heat was basicaly new 10 years ago and has gained momentum in the past oh say five years. There was, at that time, no license required to install hvac so as you can imagine there are some of the most horendous {?} systems imaginable.

1 particular boiler manufacturer sold wholesale to a guy who basicaly sold radiant packages from his garage to anyone and everyone. You mention that product name now and they will run you out of town on a rail. I quite using it, not because it was a bad product, but because of the reputation it has.{purchusing it through a large supplier who only sells to contractors}

It has become somewhat of a joke with my wife and I as the rep gave me a t-shirt with the product name. I have worn it 4 times and have had 3 unhappy product owners begin a discussion on what a piece of crap it is.

Sure it has made a good market for service calls but that manufacturer has shot themselves in the foot in a part of the country that is booming with highend homes. I'll bet someones sales numbers looked good for a few years.