Oversized boiler, bad piping-contractor came and saw

Unknown

how you were making-out on this! The installer was obviously caught with his "pants-down" so to speak. As far as your symptom list goes, correcting the near-boiler piping should solve them all as these are characteristics of "wet-steam".
Not to mention proper "swing-joints" will also extend this boilers life. As far as fuel consumption goes, I can`t really answer how much in dollar-value, but you can bet, it will be more expensive to operate. On and Off or short-cycling is not only hard on fuel bills, but the controls too. I`ll have to "scratch my head for awhile", and come back to this-one.

Dave Miller

Oversized boiler, bad piping-contractor came and saw

Well, the installation mamager called today and says they want to replace the header and other near boiler piping (see attached for existing) but is waffling on the boiler replacement.

As a reminder, our new boiler is oversized by 72% (472 vs 275 EDR by my survey).

He says the manufacturer told him our boiler would not be a problem and the 281 rated model might be too small. My response was I would have to be on the phone with Utica Boiler and him before I believed that. I also said the boiler must be replaced before we are happy and, if he would not replace it, we would. I also called the factory and the guy said they would not say such a thing. In fact he has a copy of LAOSH and knows you don't oversize steam boilers.

As a reminder, our symptoms are surging, gurgling, hissing, hammer and uneven heat.

So my questions are:

1. Which of the above symptoms would you bet will be solved with correct near-boiler piping-therefore what case will remain for boiler replacement?

2. If a boiler is oversized by 72%, is there a rule as to roughly how much natural gas is wasted by %, like the AFUE charts? By the way, is no steam, (just warm) to the gauge pigtail indicative of short cycling?

3. Do I call back, tell them they are not welcome back in the house and replace it myself (and continue to berate myself for not coming here first)?

Thanks once again for making your professional experience and wisdom available to poor little HO's like me who don't take the time to contract right in the first place................

Cosmo_3

Dave

Your first step may be to hire a professional yourself to size up your EDR, and make some recommendations. Although you are probably spot on with your calculations, it will be worth your money I think to be sure before proceeding with your existing contractor.

You then can present the information you paid for to the contractor and if in fact the boiler is grossly oversized (I am sure you are right), then this will give him a last chance to do the right thing before things start getting nasty.

Obviously correct piping practices may help the system run better, but an oversized boiler on a steam system will keep giving you grief right up until the correct size boiler is installed.

Good luck, and thank Dan with a few bricks for giving you such a great place to turn to when your situation is resolved, ok?


Cosmo

Dave Miller

Thanks Cosmo

for the advice on a professional hire. I just wish there was such listed on this site. I got a suggestion from the local supply house so I will do so and I will also add to my measly 1 brick collection.......

Jim Pompetti

poor piping

We spend more time doing re pipes , from sloppy contractor ,then we do installs , it seems that low bid contractor make the best salesmen . You get what you pay for , or less , mostly less .



FIGHT LIKE A GIRL FIND THE CURE FOR BREAST CANCER

Dave Miller

Thanks Dave

for the reply and I hope you keep thinking on our problem.

Meanwhile, how about that lukewarm gauge pigtail? I just observed a 25 min firing and the pigtail for he gauge and pressuretrol only got lukewarm; I could hang on to it. Now I am wondering what sort of cycle would ever bring the pressuretrol into the picture.............

Thanks,

Dave

Unknown

I hope you

I hope you are letting the "contractor's" supply house who sold this boiler to him know about this job as well the boiler company...

frank_25

the pigtail

That 360* pipe ya got there is to prevent water/steam from entering the pt. there would also be an air pocket below it. That's why is not too hot. That's OK 'cause it's measuring pressure, not temp.

Weezbo

i would rather have heard

oversized conrtactor came WITH saw:)

Garret

I found this a while back... attempts to quantify the system efficiency loss of an oversized boiler... (warning, math ahead!)

http://www.energy.rochester.edu/efficiency/optimal_boiler_size.pdf

Dave Miller

Oversized boiler, bad piping-contractor came and saw

Good news. The contractor is going to "do the right thing" and replace the oversized boiler and pipe to the manufacturer's specs.

I would not have been able to guide them to this right and proper decision without the advice and support of you, my newfound Wallie friends, for which I thank you all.

I must also credit Dan and his TLAOSH book, and articles here, for giving me the knowledge with which to firmly press my case. The Installation Manager has now started to rely on the copy of TLAOSH I gave him, and I'll bet he used it to make the case to his bosses to do the installation correctly.

I'm on my way to purchase a couple more bricks and will keep you all posted on our progress.

Thanks again,

Dave

Unknown

Glad.................

to hear that Dave!!!!!, we all are!!. This seems like a good company who is willing to learn from their mistakes and set them right! It`s a great feeling when "cool heads" prevail eh? Best of Luck to ya!!!

Brad White_9

You gave the installation manager a copy of

TLAOSH?? You are a prince of a guy, Dave. The kind of customer every contractor must dream of.

I too hoped for a peaceful resolution and newfound efficiency for your steam heating system. Best thing is, you have educated others (the service manager) and in turn others in his charge. Congratulations and thanks for the feedback.