For those considering outdoor wood burners

Unknown

Up here in Ontario, guy`s are putting them in all over the place,(of course in rural areas). I`m not sure of the "make" or where they get them, that`s not my "bag", but I have seen many. Many HO`s up-here swear by them, but to me if you consider their original installation cost, coupled with the "wood-work-time", it doesn`t interest me. I`ll be interested to hear the rulings on them the U.S. comes-up with.

Steve Ebels_3

FYI

I'm on the Board of Directors for the Michigan Township Association and chair the environmental committee. In that capacity, I have come across some items that may be of interest to those of you considering the purchase and installation of an outdoor wood burning heater. Up here in Northern Michigan, they are being sold as fast as they can be made and complaints of smoke by owners and neighbors, as well as poor efficiency are piling up. A lot of State and local government agencies are taking notice of these things and begining to do something about them.

It's my understanding that an emission/efficiency standard for outdoor wood burners is currently in it's final form and being reviewed by ASTM. The only two wood boilers tested that currently meet this standard are the Garn made by Dectra Industries and the Tarm which is imported from Denmark. All other units tested have come up short of the new standard by a large margin.

This is NOT an advertisement for either company I named. I just see a lot of people who are dissatisfied with some of these units and I think big changes are coming in this particular market. Many of the current manufacturers of this type of "heater" are sheet metal fabricating shops and have little to no knowledge of combustion and what it takes to make a wood burner eat wood in a clean manner. Many of those have a good chance of not being able to meet this new standard and/or pay for certification of their units. In other words, an industry wide shakeout is probably on the way which will leave a lot of folks without a company to back up the product they just bought.

A word to the wise is sufficient.

hot_rod

Steve

I'd be interested in seeing any test results you have on OWF. I've heard the 28-40% efficiency numbers attached to them. From my experience and my neighbors burning 6-8 cords per year to heat 2000 sq. ft. homes I tend to believe that range. Be nice to see any data backing those claims.

I did see several of the big name OWF manufactures showing pellet and corn burners this past weekend at our local FarmFest.

Seems odd that they chose to stick these pellet augers inside those inefficient steel drums, however.

Perhaps they obtain better temperature control, and lesser emissions, but, oh those horribly inefficient HX designs.

Out of the pot and into the fire

Typical, pellets have gone from 80 to 100 and now $150 per ton. Should someone do the math a 90% LP boiler looks to kick butt over a 40% pellet at those pellet prices and 1.50 LP.

A Walmart employee stopped by our booth and indicated walMart will start selling pellets in some locations. They have the clout to pretty much tie up all the current pellet production, leaving little if any for the small dealers. hmmm.

hot rod

Frenchie

Dual fuel option

I just saw an ad from the local manufacturer of outdoor wood boilers offering an optional oil burner to be mounted on the side of the thing, that kicks on when the fire dies down. GOOD GOD MAN, can you just imagine how fast that critter could empty a 275 gallon tank of oil?????

REF

EPA

Keep your eyes on the EPA..Vermont is looking very hard at these units because of smoke complaints. They cost a fortune to purchase and install. Outdoor reset and high efficency hot water is what I say..

Respectfully,
REF

Steve Ebels_3

Efficiency of dual fuel

I ran a combustion test on one of these that used propane for the backup burner. The indicated combustion efficiency on it was 43%, stack temp was 640* and this was with "boiler" water temp at only 132*. Not pretty! I told the guy to use the propane burner only in DIRE emergency.

Steve Ebels_3

Hot Rod

I have not seen the actual report but was told by someone in the Michigan DEQ who was there that the results ran from 31% to 44% actual measured efficiency. This was uniform for all the wood burners tested which utilize the standard water jacket design. You have accurately described it as a pot of water over a camp fire. The analogy he used to describe the particulate amount was to compare it to a coal fired locomotive. The lab used air dried hardwood that tested at 20% moisture and very controlled water temps such as used to determine AFUE outputs.

The only two units tested that exceeded the proposed standard were the Garn and Tarm. Interestingly, both of those units are gasification type and both have mondo water capacity. The Garn is built that way (1500 gls in their smallest model) and the Tarm was tested with their auxilary storage tank.

John_102

And, if I recall correctly,

it was Vermont & other NE states that tightened emissions (or at least raised cain) about wood-burning stoves 25 or so years ago. I may love the smell of woodsmoke in the holler, but that's no solution.

In other news, soot emmissions have been tightened, but not nearly enough according to some. Seems we humans approach our problems piecemeal, mostly.

Weezbo

Tested By WHom?

where might we read of this "Test"...what is your source of information?....


is the testing lab OMNI ?

The reason i ask is that bad boy wood boiler that looked like something the Klingons bolted together looked real impressive to me and while i no longer have the beauty stashed in my threads due to a computer crash...i was fairly certain that they were saying that they were getting ASTM certification for thier boiler... it looked like a wood boiler that was designed this century..... while the Tarm is a multi fuel boiler there is more to servicing those than meets the general savey techs first perusal....

Ross_7

Outdoor wood \"boilers\"

> I'm on the Board of Directors for the Michigan

> Township Association and chair the environmental

> committee. In that capacity, I have come across

> some items that may be of interest to those of

> you considering the purchase and installation of

> an outdoor wood burning heater. Up here in

> Northern Michigan, they are being sold as fast as

> they can be made and complaints of smoke by

> owners and neighbors, as well as poor efficiency

> are piling up. A lot of State and local

> government agencies are taking notice of these

> things and begining to do something about

> them.

>

> It's my understanding that an

> emission/efficiency standard for outdoor wood

> burners is currently in it's final form and being

> reviewed by ASTM. The only two wood boilers

> tested that currently meet this standard are the

> Garn made by Dectra Industries and the Tarm which

> is imported from Denmark. All other units tested

> have come up short of the new standard by a large

> margin.

>

> This is NOT an advertisement for

> either company I named. I just see a lot of

> people who are dissatisfied with some of these

> units and I think big changes are coming in this

> particular market. Many of the current

> manufacturers of this type of "heater" are sheet

> metal fabricating shops and have little to no

> knowledge of combustion and what it takes to make

> a wood burner eat wood in a clean manner. Many of

> those have a good chance of not being able to

> meet this new standard and/or pay for

> certification of their units. In other words, an

> industry wide shakeout is probably on the way

> which will leave a lot of folks without a company

> to back up the product they just bought.

>

> A

> word to the wise is sufficient.

Ross_7

Outdoor wood \"boilers\"

Hey Steve,

What brand has everyone been installing downstate? The main one in Marquette county has been Central Boiler. I can't believe everyone is buying into these. I think that they are over priced garbage. You'd have to burn a lot of fossil fuel of any type to make up for just the initial cost of these pieces of equipment. I definitely don't like these at all.
Ross

mtfallsmikey

Brings back memories

Did anyone ever sell any Yukon wood / oil / gas furnaces? I did, and what a PIA they were! Maybe got 50% combustion eff. out of them. and as far as the wood boilers go...one of my neighbors is putting a pickup load of wood A WEEK thru his!

hot_rod

I've heard the tests were

performed at Forest Resources labs in Wisconsin. I also heard Warnock- Hersey. Not sure if either or both performed testing.

I believe the latest EPA standards cannot be met by many of the OWF. But I'm not sure the EPA has the staff or budget to enforce these standards. Probabaly best handled at the state, township, or county level.

hot rod

Weezbo

alot of the information i just read seems to state....

there are many variables that influence various wood burning and some suggest that residential wood boilers are currently regulated only under certain ordinances and set backs illegal burning of plastics the various emmissions buh nothing stating anything about specific tests or requirements for residential...plenty on commercial most of them start in the :Meggar: size.

Tim_34

Burning Wood to Stay Warm

I never understood why anyone would choose an outdoor wood burning heater when they could install an indoor masonry heater as their primary heat source.

If a person likes to burn wood, using a well designed masonry heater is the way to go. Typically one firing a day during spring and fall. Maybe a second firing if the temp drops into the 20's.

Run time is short and because you don't choke off the air to the combustion chamber. Therefore you are not smoking out your neighbor all day.

Another plus is that the quality of heat off a masonry heater is exactly the same as a well designed radiant floor system - no more than 2 degrees difference between floor temps and ceiling temps.

Steve Ebels_3

We got

Woodmaster (the Janitrol of wood burners), HeatMor, Heat Source, Central Boiler, you name it. The ones I listed are all within 10-15 miles of me here in Missaukee county. The "boilers" and the vermin that sell them are proliferating like rabbits. I saw one install last week that the dealer used 1" cold water PE pipe to run into the basement with. The HO was clueless as to the reason I wouldn't touch his "system". His words to me were...... "He (the dealer) gave me a really good price". I just shake my head sometimes and walk away.

Ross_7

heatmor

Heatmor, yes that's another one. A friend bought one, before I could talk to him about it, and the guy that sold it to him told him that he didn't need a heat exchanger. That he could tie it in directly with his gas boiler. Yikes!

rick_49

I heard some towns are banning wood fired outdoor boilers.

Dave Belisle

I was called to tune up a oil fired furnace that was less than a year old because the owner thought he had a
problem with it . To my horror there was a outdoor wood boiler several houses down the street with a mountain of pallets beside it . This thing was belching out huge clouds of smoke . I started to cough and hack and my eyes started to water . The inside of my customers house smelled like a wood stove.

This wood boiler is in a suburban back yard on 100 by 100 lots !!!

I installed these things out in the country for farmers 20 years ago, But now there popping up everyware.....
this guy is terrorizing 20 to 30 homes in the area.......

The police and fire departments have been up to talk with him and told him to stop but it only works for a few days. Nothing seems to work.....

These things are selling like hot cakes in NH , but if they are not run wide open they are a nightmare.....
People need to feed these things more often rather than
trying to load them just once a day.........

People don't do that with wood boilers inside because they don't want a chimney fire.


No wonder all the Northern states are looking into laws
to regulate them ....

If you google outdoor wood boilers it is amazing how many
states are looking at them

Vermont had a law on the books that was to take effect last October of 2005.
But with the spike in oil prices last year they never let it go into effect.

One outdoor wood boiler will put out more pollutants than 1,000 oil fire boilers, or 1,800 gas fired !!!!

Dave in NH

Perry_2

Old wood Furnaces and Boilers

Back in the days of yore... When the dead men rulled. They had wood furnaces and boilers that were similar in construction to coal furnaces and boilers. The grates were different and the firebox was a bit different.

Some of them were even dual fuel and you could burn chunk coal in them.

Those units burned a lot cleaner - with a lot better control than most any of the current wood fired "wonders" that seem to exist. I would love to match them for all arround operation and efficiecy to most of the modern things out their.

Perry