Help! Need new burners for my Weil McClain

Dave_103

Hey Steve, didn`t they used to call them "aluminized-steel"? Since then, I think they wised-up and made them all-stainless.

Freezing Guy

Help! Need replacement burners for my Weil McClain

Hi,
I'm a regular homeowner guy with a bad sense of timing. I have a 12 year old Weil McClain boiler system in my home in the Seattle area. The six burner tubes in my system are rather corroded (see pic) and the grid portion is missing. I sometimes see flames shoot backward through the tubes and a lot of yellow flame. This may be in part because I was once advised to clean them out periodically (they did collect a lot of crud), but I used a rather abrasive brush. I have come to accept they need to be replaced, and I have turned off the boiler for now.

I haven't had anyone out to fix this because:

1) I know the burners need to be replaced, and I didn't want to pay for a service call if someone was just going to show up and then say they need to order parts

2) I understand that if someone looks at it, they may be obliged to tell the gas company to shut off my gas (and thus my hot water for showers, etc)

3) The one replacement quote I got for the parts was $1500! However, no one I call will return my calls. I assume this is the busiest time of the year.

So my question is -- does anyone know how I can get these parts for a reasonable price that I can afford? Or is there a workaround with some similar parts? I can easily replace them myself if needed. Apparently my model has been made obsolete, which explains the cost.

My house is getting cold and wife getting angry!

Model info:
Weil McClain CG Boiler
Model CG-4-PIDN
Series 11.

Thanks in advance!
Freezing Guy

Ken_40

Just walk

into a plumbing supply house that displays the Weil McLain logo and tell him you need x-number of burner racks for that model CG and bada bing, you're cookin with gas

Less than 100, I would think. Probably a stocked item.

Dave_103

Ken`s right..........

CG`s are very common, you should have no trouble!!

STEVE PAUL_3

WEIL MCLAIN BURNERS

I suggest that you check with Weil Mclain about burner recalls.
We recently were sent new burners that failed due to manufacturing defects. I can not recall the boiler model though.

STEVE PAUL_3

I just saw your attached phots of your boiler. You have WAAAAY to much crap around the boiler. I advise some house keeping before the house fire.

Unknown

reason for burners replacment?

Weil Mclain has been my main choice of boiler since I got into the field in late 70's... Worked on all kind of boilers... I never replaced burners on boiler but in ur case, u have old standing cast iron radatiors sytem that keeping the water too cool and corrossive condasation dripping onto burners and rusting out same? If that the case, better call a boiler pro to disassemable the boiler to make sure the passageways are clean... Yes, u have to pay for the service, still cheaper than a funeral... Don't be stingy on this imporatnt check up for ur family...

Unknown

I agree rjbphd.............

with your "condensation issue", but would a "damp" basement year round, not cause the same? Just curious.
I have WM in my own house, but those "old aluminized-steel burners" were crap!

Freezing Guy

Wow, thanks for all the great advice. I'll be going through the phone book looking for a plumbing supply place today.

Yes, my house is 50 years old, and I have a series of baseboard radiators all on one circuit via cast-iron pipes. Obviously not a well designed plan -- my laundry room is the warmest room in the house, and the master bedroom one of the coldest.

The boiler is in an unheated semi-detached garage, and it is uninsulated and subject to a lot of temperature drop at night. Would insulating it possibly help with my condensation? I do plan to invest on getting someone to clean it out after I get the new burners.

Also, I use a programmable thermostat, so that the system shuts down for a few hours at night and comes on again in the morning to save a few bucks. Is this likely to encourage the condensation problem?

Thanks again!

Freezing Guy

Unknown

It sure could...............

depending on how its piped-up, you must bring the boiler up to operating temp as soon as possible to eliminate the condensation issue.

Ken_40

The day/night 'stat...

is interesting, but not part of the problem. In fact, it likely helps a lot!

Think about it.

A plane jane non programmible stat says to the boiler, "Okay. Turn on." 15-minutes later, the stat says, "OK, Now turn off I'm satisfied." During that short run-time, the boiler may go to whatever it takes to pickup 2-3 degrees of house temp. Rarely in that instance, would a boiler reach limit (typically 190, or if an ultra new/modern system, 160).

If however, the day-night stat says, "Okay, you were at 62 all night, now it's wake-up time and he wants to see 68, let's start and run for a long enough time to bring a 60 degree room (and all its contents) up to 68." The likihood is he boiler will run longer and almost for a certainty reach the boiler's limit; frequently 160 or 190! Either of which would reduce and/or eliminate any condensation and dry the boiler completely out!

Knowing most boilers are oversized by way more than perfect designs suggest, the "load" will almost always be less than the boiler's output capability. Thus, a longer firing boiler will almost always pass the condensing temps point. A deep setback almost guarantees this will occur.

Zoning issues, the fact that all boilers must condense on start up - and in fact are designed to withstand this "normal" condition 100% of all starts, should be comforting to know.

The only exception to this is boilers with D/H/W coil(s), not on timers (BTW, one of the most overlooked energy savings designs THAT design could utilize)

Ken_40

BTW...

The replacement of all burner racks but one, is a cake walk. The lone bruner rack to which the ignition and pilot tube is attached requires care and good access and more than "cake-walk" expertise.

BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL in messing with the ignition, pilot tube, and thermocouple (if so equipped) on that one "unique" near center rack.

A potential gas leak or improper ignitor gap could be your undoing.

Unknown

Ken..........

Let me see if I understand what your getting-at here. Are you saying that bypass piping is not required on "any system"?
Should we all just get "setback thermostats" and leave the boiler be, because it will eventually get hot anyway? Are all the manufacturers wrong? Sorry, but I disagree with that!!!

Ken_40

No, I'm not saying that.

I'm saying what I wrote. ALL BOILERS CONDENSE ON START-UP!

The notion that somehow all boilers will self-destruct if allowed to condense is absurd. There is no way for any boiler NOT to condense on cold start.

Since all boilers will "cold-start" virtually all fall and spring, and will NOT run long enough to make the natural combustion by-product of steam stay a gas (but rather return back into the water we call condensate), we may be confused by what happens all fall and spring with some dark sinister notion. But, event that is normal, cannot be prevented by any piping design. It CAN be reduced, but not eliminated!

The real question becomes, how much condensation can a typically oversized and c.i. boiler take without debilitating damage, as opposed to how much is normal and within the designs of the manufacturer, and therefore - completely acceptable. A lot!

If the boiler WAS sized very "tightly" (very abnormal) and if the manufacturer (like W/M having an internal thermostat to preclude long >140F run-times), suggests a by-pass piping array, I'd do it. Multiple zones, D/H/W and the like, even properly sized c.i. boilers to condense only briefly. In those instances, condensing is virtually harmless.

Cast iron boiler condensing issues are like beer: having a few is harmless. Drinking all fall and winter, 24/7 is bad for the boiler, not to mention your liver. Of the 1,000 or so boilers I replaced/installed in the past 45 years, I could count the ones that died from condensing corrosion related failures with at maybe one or two.

Ask yourself, How many have you actually seen?

Unknown

Well then.............

what do you think caused the guy`s burners to rust-out after 12 years? I would say there`s definately a problem there.
I`m not questioning your impeccable reputation, I`m just disagreeing on your thoughts reguarding this issue.

Ken_40

Impeccable reputation?

Only in my dreams (;-o) Don't start any rumors...

Well, consider this:

If his basement is generally damp, show me one that isn't.

W/M did switch to SS burner racks, implying basic longevity issues, not necessarily related to high condensing issues.

The burner racks are located below a void (the voids BETWEEN the sections) not a section; suggesting any condensate forming would drip between the racks, not directly on them.

The racks are NOT in the boiler, they are located in "free combustion" air zone, well below the block - where condensation could occur. The racks are not subject to water vapor damage themselves. They reside ~6" below the area where condensate would occur.

Since the lowest aspect of boiler block/sections are closest to the racks (and therefore the flame(s) itself), they are also the warmest, probably the only area of the c.i.sections that stay ABOVE the dew point, ~140F most of the time. That would preclude the formation of water condensate, although on initial start, not by much.

Z'at help?

Unknown

LOL

Okay,,,,,,,,Okay, nuff said,,,,,,,,,,but I still disagree with ya!! LOL!!!!!!

Steamhead (in transit)

FG, while you're at it

why not look into zoning your system so you can keep different areas at different temperatures? You'd need a pro to make this happen, but he could also make the needed piping changes around the boiler while doing this.

If the boiler is under-loaded and you have an older water heater, look into getting an indirect tank that runs off the boiler. Not only will this give you more hot water while using less energy, but the boiler would stay at temperature for longer periods of time. The only downside is that indirects cost a lot, but some have limited lifetime warranties which makes up for some of the cost difference.

If the boiler is wayyyyyy oversized, which a heat-loss calculation would tell you, I'd consider replacing it with something closer to the actual load.

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tim smith

Weil mclain burners here.

I left him a message on his e mail that I have burners for that boiler, will wait to hear unless he found them through supplier. Tim

Freezing Guy

Just an update --

I went through every plumbing suppy house in the phone book in the Seattle / Everett area, and it looks like the only supplier is a company called Ferguson. Fortunately with my serial number they were able to order my parts for in the neighborhood of $68. Can't wait until they arrive

Also talked to Tim -- quite a generous guy -- he is clearly overburdened with jobs to do, but he is trying to find a time to clean and service my boiler.

Thanks again for all the help. You guys clearly take your craft very seriously and I wish more people were like you.

Thanks,
Freezing Guy.