copper feed line on third floor radiator

Brad White_9

That lone copper line has to be expanding at a good clip for one thing, just under 150% of the rate of steel. The line would grow over half an inch over three stories.

Add to that the relatively small diameter (compared to what flow rate I do not know). But regardless, the condensing and down-flow on the outside wall gets to be a bit tedious when you are a hot gas aspiring to be free.

I would figure out the EDR it is intending to serve, size it right, in iron, insulate and be done with it. A swing joint and a few strategic offsets cannot hurt so long as they are properly pitched.

virtualplumber

copper feed line on third floor radiator with banging pipes.

Customer called with terrible hammering in steam lines. I am at the job now and have fired up the big ole boiler. The only noise I hear is from a third floor bathroom radiator. It is popping and sizzling while the steam is on. I noticed that the riser to the radiator is copper. It is 3/4" copper all the way from the
basement. This is a low pressure 2 pipe steam residential boiler. There is a second vapor stat insalled on the return drop on the other side of the basement. ( I haven't seen that before) it is wired in series with the regular presure trol switch. I have recommended that we open the walls and remove the copper and replace with insulated iron.

virtualplumber

Thanks Brad- but there's more

OK. I am going to do it. It calls for 1". good tip on the offsets also. Now next question. This is a 1.5 lb system with a regular pressure trol at the boiler. Someone has wired in a vapor stat on the return drop set to open a very low pressure. They have also wired in an aqua stat in the same line below the water level. It is set to open at 185º. Any clue what this is all about?

Brad White_9

More indeed....

I suspect that the aquastat below the waterline is an attempt at making this a "below the waterline" (duh!) separate hot water zone and that the aquastat is a cut-out to prevent steaming. This might explain the use of copper. Now the return line is...? And where would it be? Is there a circulator?

The vaporstat? I can only guess that is another way to stop the circuit before steaming as you said, it opens at very low pressure...

Ron Schroeder

VP

The Pressurestat is there to shut down boiler when end of main reaches pressure not just a guestamet from the boiler pressuretrol. The aquastat if on 180* is probably for a circulator zone or Tankless coil but tanklesses are usually at 160*

Like Weezbo I can't type as fast as you Brad, but that is good as I can't read as fast as you type either.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Are those two controls in series and operating the burner? Likely also in series with a wall thermostat in that bathroom?

If so, here's a wild guess. It never heated properly due to the too small pipe. So someone decided to use a vaporstat to fire the boiler to extremely low pressure but only when the thermostat for the zone was calling and only if there was already hot condensate in the system. Goofy I know, but little pipe would mean little pressure to some

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I thought of both a hot water condensate loop and tankless coil as well. It's the 2nd vaporstat that confuses me and had me thinking really weird...

As Brad asked, is there a circulator hanging around anywhere?

virtualplumber

No Pump.

The aquastat and the vaporstat are wired with the low water cut off and t stat. There is no circulator or indirect domestic tank. the aqustat opens if the temp of the return line (Which runs underthe basement floor for 20 feet) exceeds 185º. Also the third floor radiator heats like crazy it just bangs a lot too.

Brad White_9

Here is a reach...

I do not mean to guess, but does the pipe in question depart from above or below the waterline? If below, I will go out on a limb to say that perhaps it is someone's idea of a gravity hot water branch using condensate. What a reach that is.... Given no circulator, I can only then surmise that the aquastat control was once controlling something no longer connected.

Back to reality: It the aquastat you said is on the return line (I just got that). It could be part of a heat-timer to register a cycle completion.

That said, the copper is just a bad steam piping job... waiting for you to correct it properly. What do you think?

virtualplumber

Ok Brad

I am going to size the thing correctly and then replace the feed and return in iron. The aqua stat....that's for another day.

Thanks

Andy

Ron Schroeder

Out on a limb here

but how does the hartford loop look wondering if they were getting steam in the return and shutting the system down if the return got over 185*?? if your going to the third floor you may want to upsize that supply pipe one size for excess condensate falling back.

Brad White_9

You know, Bruce

I was going to post that last sentence given it is a one-shot deal to fix.... and you took care of it. Beautiful. One size up cannot hurt!