Cast iron vs copper boiler

Tom_31

Try a lower mass steel boiler that will shut itself down during periods of non use. I have steel boilers in my area that last a long long time.

Jesse_2

Cast iron vs copper boiler

I am replacing a 175 BTU cast iron water boiler system with radiators in a 2 unit building that I plan on selling in a year. I had 3 estimates done with one contractor recommending a 165K BTU copper boiler at a savings of about $1k vs the cast iron boiler estimates. Can anyone give me any advise and the pros & cons in helping me decide which one to go with. Thank you in advance.

Ken_40

The problem...

of price difference is NOT the result of a copper vs. cast iron vs. steel, ad nauseum.

A 165,000 BTU boiler of ANY material will be a few percentage points one way or the other! Unless of course it is a "euro" style unit; which seems to foster allegations of "superior quality" - which in turn attempts to justify over-priced boilers through phenominal marketing based upon magical claims of engineering superiority.

Caveat Emptor

Jesse_2

Well now, despite cost difference. What are the benfits of copper vs cast iron or vise versa?

ALH_4

low or high mass

Copper low mass boilers can be a bit more tempermental. Cast iron high mass boilers are more forgiving. The low mass of a copper boiler can result in more cycling than a higher mass boiler. Efficiencies are similar in general. I would suggest a Tekmar 256 or 260 control depending on whether you are using the boiler for domestic hot water or not. They are relatively inexpensive and give you a lot of control for the money.

Or you could go with a European condensing boiler for lowest operating cost, like a Lochinvar Knight, HTP Munchkin, Weil McLain Ultra, Triange Tube Prestige, among many others. As you will be selling soon, the added cost may or may not be worth it. I do not know what difference it may make in the value of the building. Though every rent dollar you don't have to give to the utility company is in your pocket, and any buyer will know that too. Another benefit to the modulating condensing boilers is that you could essentially limit tenants' ability to keep their unit at 90F with the built-in full reset controls most condensing boilers have standard.

Personally, I would stay away from copper boilers. In general, they do not age well.

-Andrew

Timco

Copper = 25 yr warranty or so. Cast Iron = lifetime warranty. Size is also much smaler with copper. Much smaller mass. Copper fin HX are not easy to clean...I like CI personally.

Tim

Ron Schroeder

Anther thing to concider

If these are similar sized units that can be easily seperated in the basemant then two smaller modcon units, one for each uit then the tennant could pay thier own fuel bill, which would be a good selling point in the future.

Timco

I have one CI boiler, and 4 circs in my 4-plex and Relms, Inc. monitors the run time of each circ and splits my gas bill accordingly. The HW is split up based on occupancy of each unit. Bye bye gas bill!!!

Tim

Scott04

Low mass boiler

I'm not all that familiar with low mass boilers. That being said, it doesn't make sense to me to connect a high mass system (you mentioned radiators) to a low mass boiler. From what I have seen, it would require a buffer tank which I would think would eliminate any benefits of the low mass boiler.

If I am mistaken in my thinking, I'm sure I'll be set straight in short order! If so, I may just learn a thing or two myself!

Scott

Joe Brix

If you need high mass

I would rather that water mass live in an insulated buffer tank or a reverse indirect where it's doing some good. Isn't a high mass boiler just giving up stored BTU's to the flue pipe as soon as the burner and circulator turn off?

Scott04

Joe,

That was definately short order! I see your point about the flue losses.

I just wonder if the estimates given to the HO included a buffer tank? I don't know the cost of the copper boilers, or for that matter a buffer tank or reverse indirect, but it seems like a big cost difference between the copper and the cast iron options if the tank is figured in.

Scott

ALH_4

stuff

For the cost and trouble, he might as well go with one of the less expensive modulating condensing boilers instead of copper or cast iron. It saves pumps, wires, pipes, and labor. By the time you tack on all the equipment necessary for efficient operation of a fixed fire boiler you've almost spent enough to buy a modulating condensing boiler. Sometimes more. Traditional fixed fire boilers' days are numbered.

-Andrew

Boilerpro_5

Actually, high mass systems are great for low mass boilers

because they absorb all the heat the boiler produces without needing a buffer. However, you have to use temp protection,like cast iron or steel. In my experience, copper boilers realllly do not like running at low temps, the problems will show up very quickly. As to life, properly installed,they are just fine. I've seen a number of raybacks in Domestic water heating applciations that are ancient, despite little maintenance. For copper boilers, Raypack really seems to have thier act together. They have been using simple mechanical mode and motorized mode burners for years, about 1 to 6 or 1 to 8 mod...very nice.

Boilerpro

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Jesse_2

> I am replacing a 175 BTU cast iron water boiler

> system with radiators in a 2 unit building that I

> plan on selling in a year. I had 3 estimates done

> with one contractor recommending a 165K BTU

> copper boiler at a savings of about $1k vs the

> cast iron boiler estimates. Can anyone give me

> any advise and the pros & cons in helping me

> decide which one to go with. Thank you in

> advance.



> I am replacing a 175 BTU cast iron water boiler

> system with radiators in a 2 unit building that I

> plan on selling in a year. I had 3 estimates done

> with one contractor recommending a 165K BTU

> copper boiler at a savings of about $1k vs the

> cast iron boiler estimates. Can anyone give me

> any advise and the pros & cons in helping me

> decide which one to go with. Thank you in

> advance.



The cast iron boiler I was quoted on is 4k on a 175 BTU system including a replacement of one of my busted radiators, I not sure if that included a buffer tank. vs. the 3K 165K BTU copper boiler.

Jesse_2

I was quoted $4k for a 175K BTU cast iron boiler including a replacement of a busted radiator (not sure if buffer tank is included) vs. a $3k 165K BTU copper boiler.

Jesse

Jesse_2

I was quoted $4k for a 175K BTU cast iron boiler including a replacement of a busted radiator (not sure if buffer tank is included) vs. a $3k 165K BTU copper boiler.

Jesse

Candace Parker

The Low Mass Boiler Solution

Lochinvar's low mass copper tube boiler, the Solution, has eliminated the problems previously seen when replacing a cast iron boiler with copper tube. The built in performance loop ensures that the boiler is always getting the correct temperature back to the heat exchanger. so, essentially the installer can cut the pipes to the cast iron boiler, slide the Solution in and get to heating.

other advantages of replacing with the Solution . . .
- Lo/Hi/Lo Temperature Control - Since full boiler capacity is only needed usually 20% of the heating season this control only turns the boiler on full fire when full capacity is needed. Most cast iron boilers are on/off loosing valuable heating dollars and eliminates short cycling.
- It's lightweight!!! Save the back and man hours spent on install.
Basically, these features have been added to make the low mass boiler more flexible in replacement applications.

About the buffer tank . . . a buffer tank would only be needed in situations where there isn't enough volume in the system. With a high mass system, the low mass boiler will actually work well.

Scott04

Learning experience

As I stated, I just may learn a thing or two,, and I have! That's why I stated up front that I wasn't familiar with the low mass, copper boilers. I think I may have benefited as much as the homeowner!

Thanks,

Scott