Superbrute

Jed_2

We all know about Taco's expansion project, and that's GREAT. But, I am miffed by your response. It did not address the competitive challenge. From a Service Tech's point of view, Grundfos has a "circulator" which will replace a number of Taco's equivalent circs. One circ, not 2,3,or 4. Argue that to a Service Manager, with vans to stock.

The "visual progress report" of Taco's expansion project may globally hint at a response.

Any news of the "beta" testing yet? I'm all ears.

Jed

Unknown

Grundfos

I recently recieved some literature in the mail from Grundfos advertising their superbrute milti speed circulators.

Looks very interesting what are your opinions / experiences? Ive pretty much been a taco man for awhile.

- Norm

Independent Burner Service
Weymouth, MA
www.indoil.com

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Joe_76

I am going to try them out on my next job, HO wants the same as his buddy. I have always been a Taco man too. I hope they work well.

ScottMP

We use Grundfos

with great luck. No problems and the ability to fine tune our jobs with the speed switch is an added bonus.

Many times we run systems on speed one as many small home zones can be considered "micro" loops and need only the lower speed setting.

Scott

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Wayco Wayne_2

I've been

using them also. Other circ companys are switching to the 3 speed format. Grundfos is coming out with 2 larger 3 speed circs so they can stock 3 circs and offer 9 speeds. Smart thinking. WW

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Al Corelli

SuperBrutes

We've used them fo a very long time. They work well for all the already-described reasons. Great to keep on the service truck . They are my "preferred" circ.

Continue to use the Taco circs for any job that requires pumping of steam condensate. We've had much better luck with them for baseboard zones or indirects off of steam boilers.

Brad White_9

They are

my default for residences. I take it you are talking about the 15-58 3-speed? That has been around for several years but they have expanded the 3-speed feature into a couple of larger sizes, even the 26-99 I think. Good range of performance.

I am going to use one 15-58 Super Brute for the primary radiators on my Susan's house (Speed 1) and another to boost to the Super-Stor (Speed 3). Then I only have to stock one replacement size (and I always do have one in a box somewhere).

Unknown

How do you choose your speeds?

Slower speed for more heat exchange through the radiation?

Faster speed for longer loops?

Ive been reading pump curves from GPM through whatever pipe size, this multi speed is kind of throwing me a curvw (pun intended)



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Mark Hunt

Pump curves


I don't have the link, but

Speed 1- Equivalent to a Taco 005

Speed 2- Equivalent to a Taco 007

Speed 3- Equivalent to a Taco 0010

"First gear" is "usually" sufficient for most residential applications, but you really need to refer to the pump curves to be sure your "in the right gear".

Mark H

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Brad White_9

\"It Depends\"

Firstly I calculate my head loss at a certain flow. On the curve I go up from the flow line (horizontal) until it meets the pump curve at a given speed. (Mulitple speed curculators have three curves in the Grundfos example of course.)

If the intersection of the flow and pump curve corresponds to being equal or greater than my head loss, that is the speed I will use. I can add head (balancing valve) to maintain my flow, or accept that if more head than I need, I "ride the curve" down to where the pump curve intersects with my calculated head. Go down from that point and you will have an adjusted (greater) flow rate.

So in general you are correct, longer runs do mean higher head loss and so do more fittings for that matter. But I start with a calculation first.

Slowing flow does not really increase heat transfer of the radiator; it decreases it and only slightly but will extract more heat per unit from the water actually passing through. That is another subject.

Wayco Wayne_2

3 speed

I use the delta tee across the system I wish to have, when I have the chance to measure it. WW

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Joe Mattiello

After reading this thread about multi speed pumps, I felt compelled to offer my input. Pumps should be selected for their performance characteristics. To accomplish that you have to calculate the load, and the flow rate to satisfy the load. Once you know the flow rate required you can calculate system delta P; where the system curve intersects with the pump curve will be the design point. You can now refer to the Taco performance field of curves, and plot the design point for selecting the best candidate for that application, using best efficiency point for best performance characteristics. Taco offers a pump for every design point to assure optimum performance. When using Taco pumps you have the option of replacing cartridge only to facilitate the plumbing, saving you time, and money. You have a 1 year warranty on the whole pump, and a generous 3 years on the replaceable cartridge. The most important consideration for using Taco pumps is; Taco is continuously investing in more technologically advanced equipment, and automation to grow the business right here in Cranston RI Continuously providing good paying jobs for the American working class people. Johnny White has recently invested 10 million dollars on a much needed approximate 65,000 sq ft facility. My allegiance is to Taco for more then simply providing a great single speed pump. Please check out the pictures attached

Supply House Rick

Grundfos UPS15-58FC/FRC / Taco Cross Reference

UPS15-58FC/FRC Ratings vs Taco

High Speed 005, 007, 008, 0010-IFC

Medium Speed 005, 005-IFC, 007, 007-IFC, 008, 008-IFC, 0010-IFC, R-IFC

Low Speed 008, 005-IFC, 006, 006-IFC

This one pump has cleared up an incredible amount of valuable shelf space. An amazing performer...

Rick

GW

3 speed

I've installed (well, me and my guys) about 70 or so 3-speed Grundfos pumps in the last year or so. Never has a single issue.

For whatever reason, it must have been me, I had at 2 or 3 issues with the taco IFC. It became air bound, and after scratching my head in amazement I just yanked the IFC thingie and it worked fine.

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GW

sizing

I dig conversations like this- it's all theory until someone pokes their eye out, err, I mean someone measures the delta p on the suction and discharge on the OPERATING circulator. The air heads out there totally stink at this (if you're an air head, we're air heads and wet heads, so please don't be offended if you're actually smart), they look at their duct-u-lator and 'suppose' the static pressure will be "X", when in reality it's "Z". I bet 9 out of 10 duct guys don’t know how to measure static pressure.

Same with head loss, most 007 or 1542 circs out there could probably do double what they're working at. I applaud Grundfos for inventing the stick shift and at least giving the normal guy like me an option out there in the real world.


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ALH_4

The book

Grundfos UP Circulators

I can't believe how hard it was for me to find that book online.

-Andrew

Rich Corcoran_37

Hey Joe.......

I don't think this string was about competitive issues. I have to take the opportunity to provide a similar narrative with regard to Grundfos:

1. 100% of the Grundfos circulators mentioned are made in our Fresno, CA manufacturing plant, staffed by hard working Americans, just like you. Grundfos has operated in the US since the early 70's and has continuosly invested in our facilites, products and our people. We continue to expand our manufacturing and sales staffs to meet the growing demand for our products. We employ >700 people in the US, all paid a good wage, benefits, etc.

2. Warranty - SuperBrute circulators are covered by a 3 year 'bumper to bumper' warranty - the entire pump is covered. As you know, any wet rotor pump can be serviced with a 'cartridge' assembly - we have offered them for years.

3. I agree that the best way to select a pump is to use plot the duty point on a family of pump curves. Our only difference is the approach - 20+ models, vs. 3.

Ted_9

Good

Pretty much the only circ and brand we use. Just because it works well and I have flexability.

But I still use many other Taco products.

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Maine Ken

Am I the only one who has had MANY problems with low speed on the 15-58?? After a period of dormancy the pump freezes up on low speed, it just won't pump. A simple switch to a higher speed lets it loose, but then that is not the speed I am looking for.



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Rich Corcoran_38

Ken

Please email me your contact info and I'll have my local guy contact you. The SuperBrute has the highest starting torque in the market place - even on low speed, so I'd like to get a look at the pump.

Thanks for your post. I look forward to hearing from you.

Rich Corcoran

Weezbo

I would like to see a pic of the Hydronic slab layout ...

does it use large pex tubing?

or does it have large amounts of surface mounted iron copper tubing to remote stations?

is it the layout in the Taco Load match that shows lots of air handelers ?