Vitdens Retrofit

Paul Pollets

spoken with KW electronics at Viessmann, Waterloo, CA.? Ask for Jeff Cox. Phone #'s at the Viessmann website.

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PS

Old Set Up

Thanks to advice from people here at the Wall, I replaced my 65 yr old, 300 MBtu/h, converted oil-to-gas HW boiler with sidearm DHW heat exchanger:

PS

With a Vitodens 6-24 and Vitocell 100. Many thanks to "my" Wallie - Joel Boucher, for a seemless and professional job. His guys performed an excellent install and I can't wait to show it off to everyone that walks in my door.

BTW - With my utility's gas rate up 35% this month and next, and a proposed increase of another 28% starting 11/1 - I am sure glad I pulled the trigger on this project.

J.C.A._3

Nice job....

What are you using for radiation? I suspect there might be some good sized radiators or convectors in the home and if this is the case you've hit the jackpot. The payback will be making your neighbors jealous this winter.(did you go with the TRV's?)

Nice job Joel! Chris

Constantin

Like every homeowner I've heard from...

... with a recent conversion from CI/Steel to a low-mass, condensing, and modulating boiler, they've been delighted!

The Capitol certainly has heated the home reliably for years, and I imagine that Joels back is still hurting from carrying the sections out of the house. I hope you kept some of the memorabilia, like the square temp/pressure gauge. The B&G pump certainly looks like a monster compared to the Grundfos that replaces it!

I like how all the heating pipes are insulated with Armaflex and how the gas was piped in with bullet-proof black pipe. The LLH and the stubs left for future expansion are a nice detail, as is the shutoff above the expansion tank. I'd consider taking off the handle and stowing it alongside... I also really like the flanges with their integrated ball valves (sigh). Please keep track for your fuel usage. I'd love to know if you manage to save more than 40% fuel on a HDD-adjusted basis, as Mike T. did with his Vitodens.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Would love to know the degree-day adjusted fuel savings as well.

Unknown

NICE Joel.

Unknown

NICE Joel.

Very nice. My Pro-Press is on the way. Check out Radiant Engineering's LLH for a closer fit and air vent included all in stainless.

Wallace Radiant Design

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joel_19

tanx

> Very nice. My Pro-Press is on the way. Check out

> Radiant Engineering's LLH for a closer fit and

> air vent included all in stainless.

>

> _a

> href="http://free.hostdepartment.com/r/radiantfloo

> rs/"_Wallace Radiant Design_/a_

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 296&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_





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joel_19

thanx

thanx for all the positive feed back , and a big thank you to our customers who let us do it right!!! Yes , pro pres is the way to go works great and looks great esp when piping in lots of zones .

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PS

Tracking Savings

I have no doubt that I will see substantial savings with my new set up - considering the old boiler was so drastically oversized (Heat Loss X 5!), and condensing/modulating, OA reset. My research told me this was the way to go - and after meeting with Joel the deal was sealed.

My system is composed of a single zone, CI radiators with total output closely matched to design day demand, with one TRV'd rad (with the remaining to be retrofitted with TRVs sometime in the future) and the existing T-stat as a high-limit.

Mike T. has inspired me to track usage and I will be reporting heating degree day adjusted savings. Note, however, that I went from sidearm HX to 53-gal indirect tank for DHW. It has only been a month (a warm one) so I have no meaningful usage data - but the long supply of DHW has definitely been noticed by my wife and especially my 11-year old daughter. Given that the old sidearm and tempering valve was all limed up and provided either scalding hot or ice cold water - I am going to have to figure a way to adjust for the longer showers now that we have a more dependable and extended DHW supply.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Adjusting for the Showers

Will be difficult as usage patterns have changed significantly.

Hopefully you have enough time before space heating begins to establish a "baseline" for the new DHW production. Subtract that amount from the fuel used when you're also heating the house. Some people take longer, hotter showers in the winter and the incoming water temp drops somewhat as winter progresses. Try to make your best guess as to how such impacts winter DHW fuel requirement. In my case (stand-alone DHW) I added a 10% increase for the months of Dec, Jan and Feb. 10-therm base became 12-therms for those months.

Do the same using fuel records for your old boiler. Subtract from your winter fuel usage and you can reasonably compare the space heating component by itself.

Do try to keep indoor conditions similar. If you're inclined to experiment a bit with response like I did, read your meter before and after, then compare to typical usage during the same period (length and position) in similar weather. My one big overnight whole-house response test consumed about 3 extra therms as the boiler was running at full output for much of that time.

J.C.A._3

P.S.,

I wouldn't even worry about the domestic water usage. Your fuel use will be dropping so much that the water is now a "freebie".

Save some more pennies and get those TRV's installed as soon as you can ! They will further reduce the fuel usage by being their own thermostats. You will be a very happy camper when the cost drops further with individual control. You can also continue to make the neighbors even more jealous!!!!

Scott has the numbers from a job we did last November and the homeowners fuel bills were over 1/3rd less (easily) by doing what you've done so far. Keep plugging. Chris

PS

Savings

As crazy as it sounds, I am actually looking forward to the heating season so that I can start observing (and documenting)how this system really works under a load. Needless to say, with the expected rate increases from NSTAR - and if we have another brutally cold winter like last year - I may still pay more overall. But I shudder to think what my January '06 gas bill would have looked like with my old C/I beast!

Note to Mike T (& Constantin) - I forgot to mention that I added 2 radiators to the system (one was removed when I remodelled the kitchen, and another to a previously unheated bedroom that I am remodelling). So it will be nearly impossible to compare and normalize fuel usage between systems as so much has changed. I plan to discuss this with a co-worker who does this for a living (Energy Engineer) - so I hope I can submit some useful data in the future.

BTW - Mike T, as I have no use for my chimney anymore - you can probably imagine all the scenarios going through my head in regard to possible interior renovations. My daughter already has her eye on claiming a second story walk-in closet for a bedroom expansion! The nice thing is the new VM will easily absorb the additional load!

Mike T., Swampeast MO

That will be nearly impossible to normalize. Mine was relatively easy because the TRVs, reset and constant circulation were already in use. Only change was the boiler. Also had datalogs of indoor temps at various places in the house. Did not have logs for all of the previous winter, but had them from mid-December on.

When experimenting with the reset curve, I found it best to do such in very small increments with at least two days between adjustments. While there is not physical explanation I also found that it's possible to decrease comfort without a decrease in indoor temperature by setting the reset curve too low.

John H

Just curious,the low loss header usually requires piping the boiler on the left(the two closely spaced inlet/outlet connections)There's a reason for this but i can't remember.

Matt_34

Voltage problems?

My Vitodens is making strange clicking noises from the solenoid switch between DHW and heating and have been told the power coming into the house is 126-127 instead of 120. This is wreaking a bit of havoc with the circuit board of the unit. The installer is telling me I need to get a powerstat variable transformer to correct. Has anyone had this situation arise and what has been done to correct?

J.C.A._3

I would give ...

Viessman a call directly. With the 120v going into the power transformer (120to 230V) this shouldn't be a problem.
Make sure you have all the numbers ready for them....model, serial number and the set-up that you are using along with the settings from the on board computer.(cordless phone will be helpfull if they have to walk you through the program!) Chris

Matt_34

Yes, sort of

My installer did those steps - calling the lab and looking at the settings and everything. The cause is definitely the line voltage surging 6-7 volts over 120 before coming into the Viessman transformer. Seems weird that the seemingly slight jump in voltage would not be handled by the Viessman transformer.