Best Value in Mod/con

terry_5

what saves the moST$$$$,2 small 150k boilers or 1 modulating300k?

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Best mod/con value

If you were putting in a mod/con and were a GC, (and you did not want to sell crap, but also keeping an eye on the bottom line) what brand mod/con would you install?

Something tells me Viessman is out. I have seen some munchkins in a few spec houses - is that the bargain in the category?

Someone else mentioned Dunkirk.

I value the thoughs out here - and don't want to install something I have to explain, or worse, won't make it though year 1.

Thanks.

singh

triangle tube prestige

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hr

Tough question to answer

They all have pros and cons, features I like and dislike. My upcoming PHC News article compared the Lochinvar Knight, Trianglr Tube Prestige, Weil Ultra, Laars Mascot, and Viessmann Vitoden.

My alloted space wouldn't allow me to get into all the detail in the comparison, that I would have liked to. I hope to do an installation and operation article on each one individually in upcoming columns. I also like to add a few more of the new entrys into my comparison.

Factory and/ or rep & dealer support is critial. See what the various companies offer for contractor phone support. All the abve mentioned brands have been very good at supporting me when questions arise.

hot rod

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clammy

not what brand but who 's installing

Bottom line is usually it is not the equipment it is how it is installed and the rest of the whole system is layed out and properly sized i know for most that is a detail that no one what's to hear or pay for or is really concerned with until there is a promblem .I have benn using munchkins and have yet to have any major or even minor issues but i take the time on each job and do the home work and don't just toss it in to get it done .Vissemann is probaly the best out there but pricey but as i see it if you are not paying 3 or 4 grand for a chimmey( no footing ,liner ,outside brick or siding ect) why not add that to the heating budget then a vissesmann or buderus is not out of the question but plese remenber these unit truely perform better at lower water temp something which is not typical for most american built homes or life stlyes multi zones ect .But for a few who see the values then it is a whole hearted good and smart investment with long last up side lower operation costs and higher comfort levels .So in closing not to bash any product it mainly all depends on who is installing it that in many cases i have seen improper installation pratices and not being familar with these type of boiler is the issue .Peace and good luck clammy

Mike T., Swampeast MO

It's really going to depend on the entire system.

Viessmann Vitodens is certainly not "out" with regards to value.

Perry_2

It depends on the application

Are you installing new and can design the heating system to match the best that is avaiable in boiler - boiler controls - and home heating controls and maximize efficiency?

What are the heat loads; is the maximum expected heat load in the range of the mod/cons (I had one guy quote me a mod/con with a minimum firing rate that was so high that I would probably never need it to ramp up for anything except the coldest few days of the year. Thus it would just be an expensive on and off boiler).

If you are doing a retrofit - what type of system and can it easily adjust to varying the water temperature (which maximizes efficiency).

If doing a retrofit - how easy is it to retrofit into the house. In my case there is really only one good place to install a Mod/Con given that we wish to abandon the chimney and use outside supply air. It needs to be vented through a main floor closet and out the side of the house to clear the snow line. If I didn't have a closet in the right place on the right side of the house there would be no mod/con at all.

Are the owners looking and willing to pay for something that should be long term reliable with parts available; or just the cheapest thing they can get and not woried that it may not last that long.

When you look at all the variables none of them are out. A Viesmann may well be the best value for the application. On the other hand - perhaps not; and another may be. In actuality - a mod/con may not be your best value depending on the situation - especially for low heat loads for a limited time of the year.

Perry

hr

with 2 boilers

you will get double the modulation rate. So you could modulate from say 30,000 all the way to 300,000. This may be a good match for a multi zoned system.

Use the staging control offered by the boiler manufacture. Mod con boilers stage a bit different from your typical boiler.

hot rod

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Read his other posts

No offense...

But after reading your comments on the oil industry - which are COMPLETELY incorrect - I don't think you should be advising people on what is best. You act like an expert on oil - DO YOU REALLY THINK DIESEL COSTS MORE because of supply chain issues? Do you really think big oil makes 1/10 of a cent on a gallon(or whatever crazy number you quoted?)

Self appointed experts. What makes you an expert on hydronics? So far it sounds like you have terrorized about a dozen companies for a quote on a new boiler. That makes you an expert?
You found a closet and can vent through the wall. Great. Beleive it or not getting a pice of schedule 40 out the side of a house, 4 feet from a window and above the snow line is not rocket science.

Sorry for the rant, but the oil thing put me over the edge.

I think some of the majors have discssions on their web sites regarding profitability - they defend their 8% margin(at $3 /gallon) as reasonable - which it probably is.