Burnham MPO Q's

Gus_3

I understand that the Burnham MPO is a newer product...
With that in mind, I have some questions that I am asking the experts in the trade to help me with (a homeowner with little knowledge):
1) Have any "kinks" been reported since its been shipped? If so, what are they and how have they been cared for?
2) Are there any significant advantages/disadvantages compared to an equivalent Buderus or Viessman?
2) Which equivalent MPO model should be used to replace a V73WT-TBWF Burnham? (MP0147, MPO189, or MPO231)
3) What can I expect to pay for this replacement MPO model (reasonable retail or wholesale price)?

Thank you in advance for the information!

Robert O'Brien

No Problems

1) No problems at all,It's all standard components and design.2)It all depends on who's installing/servicing,you won't be disapointed in any of them.3) Get a heat loss done and you won't be guessing 4)You'd have to ask a contractor who's seen the job

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Nick Ciasullo

The Burnham has completed one full heating season. No glitches in it that I have heard of. The casting design is similar to the Buderus and Viessmann. If you compare the units features to the Buderus or Viessmann, they are about the same, unless you look at the Viessmann Vitorond 200 (instead of the base model 100). The Vitorond 200 comes standard with a stainless steel insert (burn chamber comes up to temperature within seconds to maintain a clean boiler and higher burn efficency) and a return injection nozzle (causes the water to blend within the boiler, allows for a lower operating temperature without condensing the flue gasses, and keeps all sections running at the same temperature).

Whichever boiler you decide to go with, make sure that you pay the extra for "outdoor reset". You will make that money back in a very short period of time.

I should point out that I am a rep for Viessmann and it is my job to know the differences.

Supply House Rick

Parts are readily available

they use Buderus parts because that's where they copied the design! Of course there hasn't been problems, been in Europe for decades

Cunner

Correction

Nick,
The MPO is more the the VR2 than the VR100, it also has the internal injection nozzle and is capable of dealing with the low temps. No disrespect meant, I just happen to have installes one recently.

kevin coppinger_4

oh please...

if you are going to comment, know what you are talking about....Glenn has gone over this time and time again. The MPO was designed from the ground up...kpc

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Nick Ciasullo

My Apologies

I did misspeak about the return injection nozzle. The Viessmann and Burnham both have it, not the Buderus. The Viessmann has the stainless insert, not the others. Sorry for the mis-information.

Nick

Constantin

The MPO is a neat unit...

... many features of the MPO, G215, and the Vitola are similar (i.e. cast-iron boilers, 3-pass, easy to clean, etc.) , but the devil is in the details.

For sure, the MPO is closest thing in the US to a Buderus G215 or a Vitola in terms of the return water temps it can tolerate w/o having flue gas condensation issues. If you can ensure that the zone water return temps to the MPO are going to be above 100°F at all times (IIRC), you should be good to go. Below that, the boiler uses pump logic to protect itself (IIRC).

The Buderus G215 and the Viessmann Vitola can go lower in terms of return water temps than the MPO. The G215 also uses pump logic, the Vitola simply asks for return temps above 50°F.

Unlike the MPO and Buderus G215, the Vitola is certified to use fuels other than oil. That is not to say that you couldn't use a gas power burner with either a G215 or a MPO, but the unit would not be certified for that use pattern and presumably not under warranty if something were to go wrong.

IMO, the well-integrated and expanadable control logic of a Vitotronic 200 or 300 still sets the standard for the industry to follow, though Tekmar can offer much of the same functionality once you add enough modules. Either control system has it's die-hard adherants.

Coming back to your question, the contractors here do not discuss pricing, so don't come asking for quotes, it's not polite. As many have pointed out, it's impossible to evaluate a job w/o being there.

I would spend a lot of time to find the best contractor you can find, then determine how much heat your house can lose, and only then select a new boiler. For all you know, your present boiler is hopelessly oversized.

A fellow homeowner, I am very happy with my Vitola but I am sure that any well-installed G215 or MPO will also leave its owner(s) full of smiles.

Weezbo

i like the MPO.

the buderus and the 100 entry level Viessman are all excellent oil fired boilers. the boiler most correctly matching your heat loss would be the best way to determine which one of the MPO's to purchase. you may pay a few dollars yet like insulation once it is installed correctly thats just about as good as it gets

the Viessman with the stainless insert is slightly tidiier arrangement of the three you listed basically it is about as close to a condensing boiler as you can get in the oil fired boilers. it sends the heat around around around ...when you clean that boiler out comes the stainless steel tube whatta deal i like to give them my vote when the shop comes closer to completion by installing 3 50's with the lag lead rotational controls.

Unknown

Here we go again!

Please disregard the comments that our friend "P J" always seems eager to offer as they are totally ficticious in nature. Each week he likes to appear as a different persona with totally bogus e-mail addresses.

All of the three-pass boilers are unique in their own design. The model you would be looking for would be the MPO-147. The internal mixing that the MPO is equipped with is totally non electrical and non-mechanical in nature and performs very well to return temperatures as low as 100F. The water flow pattern through the MPO is completely different than both of the other brands. The equal size model from Buderus will require an additional electrical control device to provide return water protection.

The MPO is made of the same type of grey cast iron that the others tend to hold claim to. They have been available to the market for going on two years now with another year or more of field testing as well. The reactions from those that have installed them has been top notch. The MPO is also the only one of the three-pass boilers out there that has rear cleanout access panels to effectively clean the boiler canopy without removing the flue pipe. Thanks for your interest in the MPO boiler.


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Dave Yates (PAH)

installation

We're placing another MPO into service next week. We'll be happy to see the other brand leaving as it's been a real PITA to maintain. The difference between Burnham's contractor-friendly access to pieces, parts and cleaning and the brand we're kicking out the door is like night Vs. day.

This install is being conjoined with a coal-fired boiler I installed on this farm about 25 years ago.

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Ted_9

G215

I beleive the Buderus G215 has a "tube" that blends the return water with warmer boiler water inside the sections. They call it Thermostream.

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wink_2

burham

the best

wink_2

burnham

master wink
[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/wink923/HILLTOPB.jpg[/IMG]

wink_2

mpo

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/wink923/HILLTOPB.jpg

wink_2

mpo

[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/wink923/HILLTOPB.jpg[/IMG]

Unknown

Very Nice!

Nice installation Wink! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

D107

great job and labeling--very close to rear wall

a contractor had told me maintenance access is in back with an MPO--your install looks only a few inches from wall.??

what's your control device(s)?

thanks,

David

Unknown

Optical Illusion

The boiler does look real close to the wall but in reality it would have to be around 15" from the wall to have 2 - 6" 90° elbows on it. That's more than enough room to remove the cleanout cover plates for vacuuming. All of the flue brushing is done from the front.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Nick Ciasullo

A clarification

Just a small, yet significant correction. The Viessmann boiler being compared to the Buderus and Burnham is the Vitorond, not the Vitola. The Vitola is vastly different in design than either of the three boilers in discussion. It is a biferral heat exchanger, and a much larger water volume than the others. This boiler is what put Viessmann on the map.

Constantin

Clarification?

Nick,

The Vitorond may have been the boiler you were comparing the Burnham MPO against, but the original poster that I was replying to was simply mentioning three different manufacturers that he was considering buying his boiler from. The original poster did not mention Vitorond or Vitola.

Whether the Vitorond, the Vitola, the MPO, or a Buderus is the best boiler for a specific customer depends on a lot of factors, though I would wager that the Vitola product line is the most versatile of the bunch, allowing a wide range of water temps while also covering a relatively wide scope of firing rates and being certified to run on either gas or oil. But, as a Viessmann rep, I imagine you already knew this.

Cheers!