Drafting problem?

tommyoil

nine months of service calls the company needed a "head honcho" to tell you you have bad draft???? I'd be skeptical too. Has anyone done a thorough clean and service to the unit? Checked fuel pump pressure and vacuum? Is the chimney possibly obstructed??? Is the proper nozzle installed? The combustion chamber in good shape? Where are you located? Maybe one of the fine contractors listed here can offer up some solid advice. Try the find a contractor section. Good luck.

Matt Wynne

Drafting problem?

Hi:

After an arduous 9 months under contract with a heating service company, rife with visits from incompetent technicians to clean out my contantly plugging oil fired boiler (weil-mclain 368 w/carlin elite EZ1, installed in 1992). The "head honcho" showed up and said that my chimney needed repointing and that's why the draft was insufficient which is why the boiler keeps plugging with soot after 3 or 4 months. His draft gauge read .01 of updraft measured in the stack after the burner shut off. He says it should read .04 and repointing it may or may not fix it. Of course, he'd like me to pay him $1000 to install a metal chimney liner to fix the problem, but I'm sceptical. Any thoughts?

-Matt

Steamhead

Matt, one of the greatest things about oil heat

is you get to choose who you deal with. And right now, you need to choose someone who can do the job. Try Find a Professional and/or get recommendations from friends.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Firedragon_4

Before you have anything

done to the chimney have a real PRO check it.

In order, an oil company that knows what it's doing and a member of this group.

DRAFT

www.firedragonent.com

Bob Harper

CSIA is not the only source of reputable sweeps

Being a CSIA Certified Chimney Sweep means you passed a test on NFPA 211 with a little of Successful Chimney Sweeping thrown in and paid them a lot of money. For every sweep currently CSIA Certified, there are probably 10-20 who do not ascribe to the Nat'l Chimney Sweep Guild and their politics, don't see what they're getting back from the hundreds of dollars it costs to join the Guild and/ or get certified and pay for their expensive courses yet a great, reputable operators.

Even with enough CEUs, they wanted about $400.00 from me just to re-cert. Of course, I could get a $100.00 discount if I rejoined the Guild for $385.00.
I just recertified through the National Fireplace Institute ( which is THE credential recognized by the hearth industry--not CSIA) for about $100.00. My NFPA dues are about $135.00. I get one helluva lot more from either of these two organizations that than I ever did from the Guild (CSIA),

Sure, there are a lot of good, reputable sweeps that are members of the NCSG and/ or are CSIA certified. There are many more good ones who are not. CSIA is not a guarantee as you seem to feel it is George. I'd be careful about such a blanket referral. If they have an Ooops! from a guy you recommended, you could be facing a suite for 'fraudulent referral'. Just FYI.

*********************
Somebody explain to me where or how it was proven this chimney being discussed does NOT need a liner? I'll refer you to NFPA 31 and 211 in addition to most any building code in America.

Matt Wynne

drafting problem?

Hi Bob:

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my original post. This chimney already has a functional 9x9 terra-cotta flue liner. The chimney was cleaned this year and the sweep reported no problems. I even lowered a droplight all the way down and could see no signs of damage. The heating outfit wants to install a metal liner.

-Matt

ed wallace

draft problem

the draft should read -.04 while the burner is running at the breech i suspect you have other issues like a miss adjusted burner

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Matt Wynne

drafting problem?

The guy was getting .01 after the burner shut down and said that it wasn't enough. He didn't take a reading while it was running. Did I mention that there's that nasty smell in the room when the burner's been running?

As far as the gun...each tech who came here before "honcho" said the previous guy set it up wrong. The last guy said that I need a riello burner. None of these guy except honcho travels with a combustion test kit.

Steamhead

Matt

The quote "None of these guy except honcho travels with a combustion test kit" should tell you everything you need to know- that is, you don't want these guys tinkering with your system since they cannot verify what they have done.

Find a reputable company where all techs use combustion analyzers.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

jim sokolovic_2

Draft readings...

The draft readings should be taken in three places - over the fire (through observation door by burner), before the barometric regulator (close to boiler top), and after the barometric regulator (close to chimney). With the burner running, these are typically -.02", -.04", and -.06", respectively. Proper sealing of the flue collector and smoke pipes is important, as is adequate combustion air supply. If the chimney tile is in good condition and each section is cemented well, I don't see how repointing (recementing between the bricks outside?) can improve the draft (it would protect the tile, though). We used to temporarily add a length or two of smokepipe (larger diameter sqeezed into 8" x 8" shape) to the top of the chimney to see if extending it up would increase the draft readings. Hope this helps!

Leo

"After an arduous 9 months under contract with a heating service company, rife with visits from incompetent technicians"

What kind of a contract do you have? Have you paid or are you paying monthly? If everything you have said is true and I assume it is it's time to find another company. Whatever you are paying for isn't worth it.
It is hard to say not being there but it sounds like you may have a tight house and your system is starving for combustion air. Is your house sealed really tight? Just a suggestion.

Leo

Unknown

Mass law is that if you make any alterations to cumbustion, you MUST perform a complete combustion test. I would assume that every state would be the same.

I would highly recommend finding a service company through this site.

Bob Harper

inspecting chimneys

"This chimney already has a functional 9x9 terra-cotta flue liner. The chimney was cleaned this year and the sweep reported no problems. I even lowered a droplight all the way down and could see no signs of damage."

Matt, please don't take offense but this is something I hear all the time, esp. from HVAC techs. The problem is, this kind of loosey-goosey inspection doesn't cut it anymore. There is now a national standard for how to conduct a chimney inspection and under what situations. Your situation would indicate a Level II inspection, which would require a closed circuit video scanner if visualization with digital photography doesn't already condemn it. Lowering a drop light down a chimney is useless. You cannot properly assess the integrety of flue tiles and mortar joints more than 2 feet down without a video camera. If the sweep performed this inspection since April of 2000, he should have performed a Level II inspection. Ask him where it is. Did he offer it and you or the previous owner refuse? If this was inspected long before you bought, there should have been a Level II inspection at the time of sale.
Again, nobody has addressed all the reasons to reline. Even if this were a brand new chimney perfectly installed to NFPA 211 stds. with good material and it passed a video inspection, it would still need a liner simply for sizing. Your stated problem is draft--this is one of the major benefits if properly sized and installed liners. They usually markedley improve draft and flow.
Since NFPA 31 requires the chimney pass inspection whenever equipment is changed out or has problems, again, please show me where this has been addressed and a liner is not indicated.

Guys, these liners are going to make your lives one heck of a lot easier getting these appliance to run at their optimum with fewer callbacks.

Just my 1 cent worth( still on Canadian time since I got back from Vancouver, eh?)

tommyoil

O.K., one more time......

Is the boiler perfectly clean? Just because the company came out and did a servicing on the boiler DOES NOT mean it is clean.What is your fuel pump pressure to the nozzle? What is your pump vacuum? What size and angle of spray is your nozzle? Is the nozzle what the manufacturer calls for? Is the boiler properly sealed between all of the sections? Did you see that it was properly sealed? Are all sealing gaskets in place? Is the combustion chamber intact? Is the chamber area free of all debris? Is the smokepipe in decent shape? How long of a run of smokepipe between the boiler and the chimney? These are ALL oilburner 101 questions. They should have been addressed at least one of the times that your company was to your house. If you did NOT see a test run on the fuel pump or any of the other BASIC and simple inspection procedures I have listed performed, START AT THE BEGINNING and get them done. I'm not saying or even implying that the chimney MIGHT NOT be the cause. However, if any of the things on the list are not up to speed, then your new chimney liner will not be the cure. It will be a band aid on a bullet wound. Try to get your company to work forward, not backwards. Personally, I would 86 the company whose techs adjust combustion devices and dont test afterwards. The potential to produce CO is very high. Boiler combustion should be tested EVERY TIME any adjustments are made. You CANNOT test for CO by looking at a flame anymore than you can tell voltage by touching a live wire. Dont take the chance. Good luck.

Firedragon_4

Thanks Bob,

as an expert witness in 20 states on 31 and 211 and a member of NFPA's Education Section I know where most of the knots are in the ropes.

Thanks again for the FYI and it proves again that everyone can air their opinions on'The Wall'.

Thanks Dan!

Firedragon_4

So does NFPA31

and virtually every OEM manual, FACT!