small snowmelt

Dave Palmer_3

in the fine state of RI. This one condo is below ground level so they figure this as a point of egress if the main stairway is blocked etc.. It is going to be like a patio,garden area with stairs leading up to parking lot.thanks Dave

Dave Palmer_3

controller

does anyone know of a simple controller for snowmelt that won't break the bank? I have a customer who has a 10/10 patio that has to have snowmelt as its one of the exits to the building.Inspector won't approve plans without it.thanks Dave

Dick Carlson

Timer

12 hour mechanical Timer. One step above a switch.

Jay_12

snowmelting control

Snow melting can get really expensive when not controlled properly. I have talked to an individual that consumed $2000 worth of gas in a single month on a snow melt system because an indoor themostat was used to turn on the system. A simple timer may work but it may cause the system to waste a lot of heat and $ by running the slab too hot. Consider using a tekmar 650 snow melt control with a 072 slab sensor. The 650 is a manual start snow melting control with a built in timer and the sensor regulates the slab temperature to an adjustable melting temperature.

Jay www.tekmarcontrols.com 250-545-7749

Unknown

LCD1-H

Available from Watts or ETI

Mounts on 3/4 conduit, senses temp and moisture, runs for 6 hours after dry. LIST Price $495

www.wattsradiant.com

wetheat1_2

Depends what you need

Typically a snow melting system should have some sort of a mixing method, slab protection(delta T limiting), boiler return protection, slab temperature feedback, and outdoor temperature feedback as a minimum. A simple "snow switch" will not do this. The Tekmar 650 is a good choice or we can help you lay out a promix 212. Is there any other mixed load in the project? What other control requirements are there? Perhaps you can save some money by looking at a multifunction control.

Tim D.

Unknown

Geeze...

I thought he was just looking for a switch.

Mmmm.

But Tim, think of this, a properly sized plate heat exchanger with the properly sized circs with an aquastat controller (or two if you want boiler protection) works GREAT for a small snow melt.

I really hate throwing $1K worth of controls on $300 worth of tube.

what do you think?? you have small heat excahngers which you would use anyway to seperate the glycol from the water, why so extensive of controllers for such a small job. It starts to sound like the 80's all over again.

Steve

Dave Palmer_3

THANKS

its going to be a zone off the house boiler, condo unit with a boiler for baseboard in hallways,foyer and snowmelt patio. So yes that boiler will be mixed temp. Each condo will have heat and hot water maker for each. Just sticker shocked at pricing for controls i've seen.Best way? thanks Dave

Robert O'Connor_7

Dave.

Tell me more about why the inspector wants snowmelt. Is there some extreme site condition or heavy commercial traffic? What state is this in?

Robert O'Connor/NJ

wetheat1_2

Load vs. HP

As long as there is a way the match the horse power to the load I agree. In many cases such as this the boiler is capable of outrunning the slab and this can be a problem. The use of a delta T pump would also help protect the slab without a more sophisticated control.

Tim D.

Mad Dog_2

I agree

having done a couple of them now, I learned that there really is no such thing as "economical" or "affordable" snow melt. Its costs good money for all the right components and it ain't cheap to run. For instance: I tried another (cheaper) brand of air eliminator too stay within the homeowner's budget rather than my favorite the Spirovent. All I can tell you is there is no substitute for the best. Mark Eatherton can help you in this area - he is the Snowmelt king of America. Mad Dog

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Jed_2

Taco to the Rescue

I tried to find a PDF of the Taco TD07 technical document to attach here, but failed. Check out this document for the 00-VS Taco circ. to fit this job. It sounds perfect. This circulator will limit the rate of heat acceptance by the slab by limiting the ^T. Of course, it depends on the available BHP. It could accept a slab sensor, but why? Reasonably priced, and can be set to design temps, based on: Q=k(f) x ^T, where: Q=Rate of heat transfer into load, f= flow rate through load, ^T = desired temp drop across the distribution sustem, and k= the fluid factor based on solution. A properly sized flat plate HX and a slab circ., and your in business. And, I believe, a simple snow switch could call the demand.

Taco has some really cool stuff!!

Jed

Oh yes, by limiting the ^T, you control the heat extraction from the source.

Mark Eatherton1

Thanks MD...

You're much too kind. I'm just another hot water plumber out here in the wild wild west doing my best trying to make a difference in life... Glad to have helped made a difference in your's. You're the king of the east coast snow flake mafia:-)

Dave, if it were me, I'd put in one of them Amtrol 80 to 119 gallon tanks with the dual coil set ups. THe DHW has the most available btu's, and easiest one to prioritize. It'll save you time on the instllation.

As for control logic, KISS. You could use a Snow Switch (LCD!), and temper it with either a delta T pump like Tim suggested, and add a slab sensor (Temperature) to limit slab temp. You don't need 80 degrees F to melt snow...(I've seen it on numerous occasions).

Whatever you do, throw two twist timers at it. One for run and one for delay (needs relay). If they know there's a fast moving heavy dumping storm coming, have them kick the system into gear before the snow hits. All systems work better proactively then they do reactively.

Viceaversa, if the storm doesn't really warrant throwing a bunch of btu's at the slab, crank the delay timer to keep the boilers off line, and not causing the meters to spin, nor the ice caps to melt, not that they need any help...

Anyway, that's how I'd do it:-)

ME

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