What's your summer looking like?

Mad Dog_2

Don't worry steve, some other things will come in. Feast or famine _ I don't have to tell you. Mad Dog

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S Ebels

What's your summer looking like?

Here in Northern Michigan, things are definitely looking like a major slow down. In the last month we had 3 major jobs fall through. One was a restaurant about $50K, another was a huge dairy farm, $75K, and the other was a home with our work alone running a little over $45K. In the case of the first 2, both projects were in the dirt moving stage and the banks pulled the plug on them after giving an approval to proceed. The homeowner in the last one said he just decided not to do it because "things" looked a little scary to him. I don't know what he was speaking of exactly but the guy is in real estate and investment himself.

What are y'all seeing for the summer?

Unknown

Steve

do you ever take on smaller jobs for these lean times ? We are pretty busy all year long with simple 1 , 2 , 3 zone boiler changeouts , water heater replacements , baseboard heat and central A/C . We book these jobs usually 2 to 3 weeks in advance so there's plenty of time to schedule another job if one cancels .

We're also in an area where homes are built so close to other homes , there's always work to be had . Good luck on the work prospects Steve .

S Ebels

Ron

We do all sorts of jobs from simple F/A changeouts and basic boiler installs to light commercial-industrial. Whatever comes our way is fair game as long as we can pay the bills with it. The three I listed above were a fair percentage of our anticipated business this summer and to have them all go south in a month's time is a little disconcerting to say the least.

The sad fact of the matter in our market, which is mainly F/A, is that there is literally a thundering herd of hacks chopping each other off at the ankles on these basic jobs. We see many new homes with Jani-junk or Goodman, little main duct and loads of flex drapped all over. What hydronic systems we see are typically some baseboard running on one stat and some pex for "radiant heat" on another stat. No reset, no boiler protection, no VSI or motorized mixer. Standard CI boiler, slam bam thankyou mame type installs. The poor HO's think they are getting a new home or a new heating system and everything is "good".

Of course the builders enjoy this feeding frenzy of junk because it keeps the overall price of their homes down. 9 out of 10 customers are too ignorant to know or demand anything different.

We manage to pick off a few that want something decent and that's what keeps us afloat. I don't want to get into the bargain basement market. No future there. I guess there is hope as I just heard this week that one of the companies specializing in crap has gone bankrupt. (Imagine the HVAC system for a new 2000 sq ft home going in for a total installed cost of around $5000 and you get a picture of what they were doing) They had 6-7 trucks and a couple install crews on the road.

lchmb

wow

I couldn't even buy the parts for that. I bet I can guess why they went belly up. I hate to say it but here in the northeast thing's are booming. At least in my area. Building construction is on the rise and we alway's have old system's that really need to be replaced. The company and salesman I work for have come to realize we need to move towards the future so we are bidding on bigger and better job's. I love a challange!!
As to the hack's...:( we have them here to, but word of mouth is wiping them out fast. When you have to rebuild a system from scratch the customer does some screaming...;) But then again my intention's for the summer lean towards fishing. SO glad I work for someone..LOL

S Ebels

Lchmb

You could buy THESE materials for that. Imagine a single return duct system with 8-10, 6" supplies for the whole house. Maybe 40' of 8x20" duct, 6" flex from that to the register boots. Janijunk 80K "high efficiency" furnace with the cheapest 2 1/2T A/C condenser you can find. This is the kind of stuff I have found more than once in 2-3 year old homes that sold for $100K+. The people were flat out screwed , period. Even Red Green would be ashamed!

Lot's of these homeowners have looked at me with a pained expression of disbelief and said, "If it's that bad how did it pass inspection?" The sad truth is that the codes say very little about how well a system works or how efficient it is. Technically, it meets code for duct area and all the rest of the stupidity listed.

J.C.A._3

100K + in our area

Might get you an outhouse. We are looking at quite a few updates for this summer. We seem to be on a water heater run right now and it doesn't look like it's going to slow down at all.

I would LOVE to have a total rehab or new house to do, but we take all we can get,and do best we can for the homeowner.

Don't fret Steve, things have a way of working themselves out. One door closes and another opens. By the end of the spring I bet you'll be picking and choosing the jobs you would like to be doing. Chris

Sweet_2

Here in the southwest

Conversions from evaporative rust buckets to A/C is the big thing. Ofcourse like you the hacks are low balling everything and the homeowners are getting the shaft in over the top utilitiy bills and 10 seer equip. On the residential new costruction side radiant installs ( the whole package,C.I. boilers. no controls) are going for $ 2.00/ SQ/ FT, I dont get it, their cutting there own throats. I've got a few high eff boiler change outs coming up but between lack of education on the customers side and the economy it's been slow here for 3 months, we were on the military's base closure list with only one of the three proposed bases getting the axe (thank God). I hope the summer turns around for us.

GaryDidier

Summer

Steve,
We are as busy as we want to be. We do mostly like Ron Jr. does. Low end heat system replacements and lots of service and repair work. The small jobs can be a pain but they often lead to bigger things and create customer loyalty.
Regards,
Gary from Granville

Wethead7

Jani-junk

We carry that line. The junk around here is Trane & Carrier. The substandard work shows no branding. The undersizedducting is a problem with the installer not the product.

We do not do much new work. Our crews spend most of thier time correcting other defects. The small jobs lead to larger ones.


Mike

jeff_51

we are swamped in the mpls metro

we have calls all over the country for plumbers and fitters. Ya jsut have to go out and get all the jobs you can get. We take anything from quick service calls to light commercial. The economy has been growing steadily at a nice pace. Smaller markets are always a littl more volitale which is why I got out of western N.Y. 11 yrs ago. We are certainly expecting a good summer.

Keith_8

Looks good

Last 12 months have been very good.
We are booked for the next few months.

Our market is:
Retrofits of existing boiler rooms, chillers, roof tops
Commercial service agreements
Commercial service work

We are not afraid to travel. About 65% of our work is in CT and 35% in NY.

We always run a little lean on manpower so we don't "have" to take a job that doesn't smell right.

Between the talent of the men and our willingness to go where the work is a group effort helps to keep us humming along.

Keith

S Ebels

Sorry if I offended

I just associate those brands with trashy installations and trashy contractors because in this area, that's who uses them. I couldn't agree with you more that the quality of installation is way more important than the equipment itself.

I fail to see any merit however, in selling a product line that is footballed so horrendously by so many venue's. IE; internet, supply house direct to consumer sales, etc.

Unknown

Keith

What's the farthest distance you would travel ? Our area of coverage seems to be getting larger and larger . One of us had to drive 75 miles to install an indirect heater .

joel_19

busy

We are booked solid into july right now. 100k homes???? Your kidding right? Cheapest here is over 500k new. Heck in some towns here 500k is dumpster house, bought just to get the lot...Still a 5000$ HVAC system in a new 100k home isn't that bad. That's 5% of the price. Many builders here want to spend less than 2% OF the sale price. 800k houses with 15 k systems are common place here and yes the folks are just as screwed. Just one of the reasons we try and avoid builders at all costs.

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Keith_8

Acceptable travel

is subjective.

Depends on the customer, long term relationship and type of project.

The techs get grumpy if the envelope gets pushed to far.

Believe me, we make it worth their while to travel.

75 miles is not out of the question.

Keith

Keith_8

Acceptable travel

is subjective.

Depends on the customer, long term relationship and type of project.

The techs get grumpy if the envelope gets pushed to far.

Believe me, we make it worth their while to travel.

75 miles is not out of the question.

Keith

John Shea

not sure about up there Steve...

but Southeastern Michigan (including Detroit, of course) is ridiculously slow in ALL trades. Plumbing, Heating, Electrical even Painting. Prices in my area are scary. The contractors are low-balling like you wouldn't believe just to get the jobs.

Michigan is/has really been going downhill the last couple of years. For example, Groesbeck Hwy. 5 years ago was packed with automotive 'job shops'. Little mom and pops grinding business to medium-large auto-related companies. In a very short period of time, they are practically all gone. "For Lease" signs on every block (and no one biting). I can only imagine that this loss has trickled down (to put it in Reagan-like terms) to other industries as well.

My family has lived in SE MI for over 45 years. Sad to say, we are seriously considering a move to another part of the country. Not sure where yet, but Granholme's MI is crap.

I truly hope that someone steps in for Detroit and that MI becomes an economically strong state once again.

On the other hand, I will say that I don't get "up-north" very often so I can't speak of your situation with any knowledge. I hope for you, that it is (like one writer suggested) just a "feast or famine" period. What ever it is, it's got to be better than down here!

ryan

slow here in sw michigan

Its been slow here for proably a year or so. We are hoping for some really hot weather soon to get our ac starting. Seems like everyweek there is another plant closing or moving out of state. Most of my builders are looking for customers to build for. Looks like it might be a long summer here.

Weezbo

Very Buzy.

so far we have been running to beat the band...housing is going wild,the government has a Huge project going on,imported help ....finding many reasons to be careful about starting stuff and finishing things.it is like a fight its easy to start them ,finishing them thats the trick..........my intention is to steer forward and step gingerly forward as i have friends who have done their work and are ready to retire....so my thought is simple help them make the transition more easily..that means doing even more work and carrying a little more weight for a while..i belive this year to be an excellent opportunity to bring the younger guys (in thier 30's ) forward.Then thier future will have a better array of choises they can make. That set of choises will be up to them,that cannot be taught however i belive it is something that can be cultured...not only are we at work,we are at classes and at service on the brief momments the work load lets us up for air...
Good luck everyone,Be Safe,think twice and look at it from another perspective...."Cop an Oblique" *~/:)

harvey

hey ryan

Where are you located in Mi.?

S Davis

Work Load

We are very busy in the Puget Sound area but our service area is large, 75 miles south past seattle WA and 60 miles north to the canadian border also the san juan islands which can be a hour and a half ferry ride each way, but all we do is boiler and radiant floor heating systems.
Most jobs are running from $20,000 up to $50,000 in the custom home market.


S Davis

Apex Radiant Heating

John L

Steve

A common thread countrywide are lowballers, they are everywhere, with every brand under the sun and they will/are not going away. In fact there seems to be more than ever b4, w/ some of the recognised brands that we all sell.
Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth, it may not sit right with some however give it due consideration and it may help.
I surmise from the vast majority of postings here that you folks out there are professionals and proud of your work and companies. Some are probably owners.
My experience in this biz has shown that while we are good/great/excellent at what we do in terms of the getting the work completed and have satisfied and loyal customers, we often are lacking in the marketing dept. In fact there is thread on here with this theme (See marketing).This to me is the one area that most companies fall down.
Take it from the begining and walk through a job and you will see that if we dont get someone to call us for an estimate or evaluation then we have to look at what we are doing to generate that call.
I personally have made up letters to send to existing customers who had a repair bill of $200/300 to inform them of the new systems/rebates/specials available to them.
The best base to work from is your existing customers.
You will have maintenance agreement customers, and non maintenace agreement customers.
Getting in front of your customers on a regular basis is soooooooooo important because if you dont someone else will, just go look at the ads int papers everyday. You techs need to be made aware of how important each visit is from the point of view of gathering info on the homeowner and the system they have.
Here's what I do, I hope it will be of help.I will do this in 3 steps. BTW these are steps that I take and each person/biz will have different systems/techniques of their own

1, Generate the lead
2, Making the visit
3, Follow up.

Lead generating
Each tech should get the model and serial # of each piece of equipment.WHY, because you can direct you mailer with specific info geared to this customer.Serial # gives the age, model # gives the type, maybe they are a candidate for upgraded equipment. You may also see a pattern of high cost repairs- this is your chance to provide YOUR customer with the opportunity to get an upgrade- remember if you dont show whats available someone else will. My motto is -If I dont someone else will. Big repair bills should ring a bell,what happens if you just did a repair and the homeowner saw that big ad in the paper, called it and was sold new equipment,this has happened to us all. Now you have lost a customer, potential on going biz, and referrals, and maybe a customer that is now mad at you because you did not let them know whats available.
I also mail the neighbors and let them know of a recent instal in their 'hood. I try as much as possible to work from my customer base outwards. This type of mailing generated over 150k last yr for a very investment.

Maintenance agreements are a MUST!!!!!!!!

Making the visit.

What makes us different from the lowballers.
At this stage we should know our strengths, but if we dont we should write them down.
Im in the Chicago market so I deal w/forced air for the most part. This is not rocket science, lowballers take short cuts,period.and do other funky stuff, learn whats happening in your market and use it against them. Ive learned that these guys dont do loads,dont install drops, fabricate plenums and things like that.
So here something I use when the homeowner says I can get this for so an d so. I attach a $ figure to everything I do, thereby demonstrating to them why my price is justified. Will it work all the time probably not but enough to make it worthwhile and it is your arsenal for the future. I take pictures of every system.
I show them b4 and after pix, to demonstrate to them that I deliver what I promise. I do loads on every home.

After the install

I try to get back to each job 4/6 wks after install just to ensure they are satisfied. If I cant get back I will call them.I ask for referrals at this time.

Our marketplace is changing folks, we need to be proactive and we can do so at low cost to experiment. The papers here as I sure all over are full of ads with all sorts of offers and OUR CUSTOMERS see thes ads and are tempted to call them. This industry is known for its feast or famine, we need to even it out

So there is what I do, I hope it will help.

hvacpro1

my summer

Low ballers are scum they are bringing all of us down. Sooo
My gig is service only and light reno.Things all ways break and I'm here to fixit. We do com. refrigeration and that is good when it gets hot. Goodman has a great new line, warrantee is crazy. Simple forced air is just that, simple. it is for small < 2000 s.f homes not millionaires