Oil Filter Question

ozone357

Help me settle a bet
Part A
Which is a better oil filter a general 1a(full-flow)style
canister filter with white element or a garber style(spin on)
filter?
Part B
Is the garber style filter noted for trapping air in it?
thanks

ozone357

Oil Filter Question

Help me settle a bet,
Part A:
Which is a better oil filter a general 1a(full-flow)style
canister filter with white element or a garber style(spin on)
filter?
Part B:
Is the garber style filter noted for trapping air in it?
thanks

ed wallace

oil filtration

garber style is better because tech takes the sludge with him as to garbers trapping air yes they can if you power purge them according to bruce marshall from suntec

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Steve_35

The General is a bypass filter

and I think the best media you can get for it is around 75 micron or so. I believe Garber is 10 micron. We generally install both. A General at the tank and a spin on with a vacuum gauge at the burner. That way the cheap filter protects the more expensive one.

Firedragon_4

Ed's right,

and in addition mull this over.

The General 1A-25 has 41 sq.in. of filtering area. the 2A-700 has 83 sq. in. of filtering area. Both filter debris down to 10 micron.

The Garber 11V-R only does 10 micron filtration too, but it does it with 500 sq. in. of filtration area.

Wadda ya think???

Firedragon_4

Ed's right,

and in addition mull this over.

The General 1A-25 has 41 sq.in. of filtering area, the 2A-700 has 83 sq. in. of filtering area. Both filter debris down to 10 micron.

The Garber 11V-R only does 10 micron filtration too, but it does it with 500 sq. in. of filtration area.

Wadda ya think???

www.firedragonent.com

Mad Dog_2

I always liked the garbers

although we use both too. Mad Dog

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Steve_35

Which media for the Generals

that will take out 10 micron particles? I didn't realize there was one available.

Big Ed

Microns

You mean the Garber is the the same micron rating as the (assume the star type) General cartrage ? Not better, only larger? What filter system has a better micron rating?

Steve_35

I thought it was Garber and a couple of other spin ons

at 10 microns. The Pure-Oil spun fiber (polyester?) filters are only rated at 60 micron. I can't believe the standard yarn is anywhere close to that. Especially since there are so many cut fibers.

Apparently there's something else on the market for the General cannisters.

Firedragon_4

I pulled all of the info from

my files!

You rattled me, so I did my homework:
http://www.generalfilters.com/fuel_oil.php
http://www.garberfilters.com/residential.html

I least my files are still working, I worry a lot about my head lately! :-)

www.firedragonent.com

Firedragon_4

A micron, is a micron, is a micron

but, when your filtering area is roughly 5 times smaller, once it's plugged it can't do no more, FACT!

In addition, it the degree of pluggedidness (my word) and how effective the non-bypassing feature is.

I don't really know what that is for sure, but everyone knows the Garber just won't let anything through once it's plugged. My spies, all 20,000+ (oil techs) of them have told me they have seen blow-by past every other filter.

In 1976 BNL recommended that oil filters and nozzles be standardized for 'ease of use and effectiveness'. That has yet to happen, so we stay in the dark and get fed BS, kinda like working in a mushroom farm.

I don't know where the problem is and why it hasn't been resolved, but it's definitely a project for some industry group, JMO.

BTW, a micron is approximately 1/25,000 of an inch, FYI.

www.firedragonent.com

Steve_35

Thanks for the info, George. Just so it's clear I wasn't doubting you, but I do doubt General's 10 micron rating of their yarn filter.

We do indeed need some standardization of filters and their ratings. The #1 cause of no heats we see is plugged nozzles and most of these have just a General cannister. We recommend the additional installation of a Garber on every job that doesn't have one. As far as I'm concerned a non-bypass filter is a must.

Firedragon_4

I was clear on that

pitman9, crystal!

I'm not going to dispute their claims (General), only a very foolish person or firm would put it in writing if it wasn't true, and that's that.

I think one of the things that is going to shake up a lot of people and was one of the stars of the NEFI show (in addition to the always excitable Bruce Marshal) was the Suntec PRV38-PF. It combines the benefits of an oil safety valve and the spin-on.

Not much around on it yet, just got my sample and had to clean up and animate some photos for seminars as early as next week, but watch for it.

In addition, it also finally settles that age-old debate about what comes first, the osv, always has, probably always will, but never say, never.

I've learned never to say never, FACT!

Jaitch

My old U/G 1000 gallon tank....

The 1A25A comes 1st and catches the "big chunks" real well, then the Garber spin on is next. About once a year I drop both filters, dump the "big chunks" out of the 1A25A, and replace the spin on. In three years I've never found anything in the pump screen and I have yet to need a nozzle replacement! During the first year I clogged a few (2 or 3) spin-ons while the 1A25A still looked great! I won't argue with any manufacturer's claims, but I will tell you that wifey likes the smell in the house (or lack thereof) after the spin on replacement rather that when I need to open that "General" can of worms......
Just my 2 cents - JAITCH

Weezbo

i think the generals are good for catching water and the

gabers are better off with a general in front of them.

B. Tice

Filters

I think we are all in agreement that a General followed by a Spin-on of your choice is the way to go. Now, we have to convince the other 20,000 Guys out there.................Oh Boy....

Firedragon_4

Okay, with that

said how about 'triple-filtration??

Bill???????

Firedragon_4

Of which I

spoke!

Firedragon_4

Of which

I spoke.

zeb_3

by-pass ?

What do you mean by calling General a "by-pass filter"?

B. Tice

Filters 2

Your typical General style filter will by-pass oil when the element gets loaded. That is why filter capacity is important.A spin on type stops flowing when fully loaded.Which is better than getting it into the burner. My experience with the Firedragon triple filtration system has been positive over the last 10 or 12 years. This is for your older tanks. Here, you would leave your exsisting cannister filter at the tank with no element in it. This will be your sump for large pieces or water.Then, go right into a new General w/ standard element with a short nipple.Then (hopefully), run a new line to the burner where your Gar-ber/Westwood/Nozzle Guard/Mitco,or other brand of 10 micron spin on filter will be located.

Ragu

Firedragon

Has preached double-filtration since (at least) the first Riello installation manual. When I haven't followed through (several times, I admit) I got stuck with some plugged nozzles. Hope I've learned my lesson.

Firedragon_4

Grazie Ragu,

first started pushing double in 1980, triple in 1984. If one is good, two are better and three does the trick, after that redundancy takes hold.

Tony_8

What about ?

The Tiger Loop ? What type of filter is incorporated in that ? I'm thinking of a 2A-710 followed by a tiger loop. Should there be a Garber type before the T-L also ?

Firedragon_4

Neither the TigerLoop

or the Afriso oil de-aerators sold here have filters built in, although in Europe they do.

joel_19

correction

The Tiger loop with built in filter is available in the U.S. we use them all the time . My house i run an fbo4 with pleated foam,then a Garber , and then a viessmann filter which at that point is 2 pipe which is nice cause it's recircing through that fine filter all the time and it's getting heated as well. change the primary filter every year and the others every two just did 3rd winter on the same nozzel.

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Weezbo

Hello howdy dudey....

this is just a test...

Weezbo

Firedragon. Were you subjected to a lecture on micron size

and pump pressure when describing the triple filtration system ?*~/:)my old indian friend ragged on me for days for suggesting it )that was many years ago.

Firedragon_4

Hi Weezbo,

nope!

It's just after going around about filtration for what seems like forever and talking to those that know a lot more than me, if a fair comparison of filters is going to be made then we need to know three things:

1. Actual flow rate and there's a big difference between one-pipe and two-pipe.

2. Size of the filtration media.

3. Micron filtration size.

Most of us wouldn't put in the wrong size boiler, why put in the wrong nozzle or filter(s)?

Firedragon_4

Is that a listed filter

for ALL uses or just listed with the Viessmann?

There have been several debates over that in MA and unless the listing is new (and it could be) then using that on anything but 'big orange' is not kosher, FACT!

I did notice that Westwood has added the model S220-4 to their web-site, so I'll get a call into them this week.

Thanks for the update joel.

Firedragon_4

I found this interesting

http://www.westwoodproducts.com/tigerloop_piping.htm

Steve_35

Thanks for passing that along, George.

Jaitch

Heres a photo

of my filtration setup. It works well (poor photo, I apologize) and the vac gauges usually let me know to change a filter BEFORE a shutdown.
1A25, Spin on, and the the T/L