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concrete sawing system for radiant installs or redos

hr
hr Member Posts: 6,106
has a 5/8" wide V blade used for grooving and repairing cracks in concrete. This would be a better blade for radiant. For some reason they thought the cut needed to be 1-1/2" deep.

With a shallow cut they can spin a wider blade and still be able to run with that small light saw that runs on a standard 30 amp 240V circuit.

To cut any more meat, in a deep slot, in one pass would need a much bigger, higher HP, and heavier saw than the one pictured.

Their goal is to send a package that is user friendly and able to ship on one pallet.

I think they are close, they just need some input from the field.

Wet saws could be an option, you would need a second person to keep up with a wet vac, perhaps?

hot rod

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Comments

  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    US Saw had

    this product at the RPA RadFest in Denver this week. They are looking for contractors to demo it and get some input.

    All three pieces are able to be shipped on a pallet.

    It uses upcut blades so all the dust and debris is forced towards the vacumn. It ran virtually dust free in the demonstration inside the convention center.

    I think they will modify the straight saw to cut the entire 5/8" groove in one pass. Right now it has two blades that leaves a small, center ridge to be removed.

    I think they plan on showing it again at the RadFest East (Foley Fest) in the fall located in Chantilly, VA.

    www.ussaws.net

    hot rod

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  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    That cracked me up...

    The guy standing next to me sez "Well, I thought ALL concrete saw were up cut saws..." DUH, I think they area....

    Then, when Dan Foly says "Yeah, we got little pneumatic chippers that'll take that center out real clean!" and I'm thinking to my self, HUMMmmmm, concrete saws = dust + Pneumatic chipper = dust everywhere. Right on!!

    I guess a guy could hook one of them MONGO shop vacs up to the chipper and suck up the little plugs of concrete as they're making them.

    But I don't know... Them diamonds can't be cheap...

    Anyone got a diamond magnet?:-)

    Maybe I could trade my Gold magnet for a diamond magnet...

    NOT!!

    N.I.M.Basement

    ME

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  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    i wonder what kinds of spacing next to the perimiters it is

    able to make...it must be one kinda noisey tool :) lots of people would be able to opt for hydronic radiant in existing slabs....3/8ths" layouts must be the way to roll with it....
  • Ron Huber
    Ron Huber Member Posts: 121
    Groovy

    Hey Hot Rod,
    I used to buy Mupro & Rems products from these guys, last year they wanted me to try their prototype rig on a job I was doing an overpour on. At the time they did not have a definitive answer for holding the tube in place, what have they come up with?
  • Bob Harper
    Bob Harper Member Posts: 1,029
    diamond saw

    I saw this saw the other day at my masonry supply house. It rents for ~$95.00 per day plus $195.00 for the diamond chain or you can buy one for about $1K. May not suite your needs for radiant flooring but can also be used to breech walls, make pipe chases, etc. http://www.contractorstools.com/redzaw.html

    If I try it on this big job I have coming up, I'll give you a report on it.

    For dust control, I suggest Zipwalls poles with sheet poly coupled with a large dust collector exhausted to the outdoors. You can get a 450CFM machine through woodworking supply houses for under $200.00. Uses 4" flex hose. Get an extra hose for the discharge. You can also get intake nozzles and stands from www.grizzly.com to control the pickup point. Regular shop vacs have suction power but don't move the CFM necessary to control dust. If nothing else, rig a leaf blower or box fan out a window.
    HTH,
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    These guys

    are pretty much in the concrete sawing business. They are looking to us to see if, and how, this tool could help our industry.

    I see it as a way to "salvage" a bad tube in slab job, with the least amount of floor disruption.

    I think PAP with some APPROVED adhesive would be one method. I glued some PAP in the back of my shop a year or so ago. I kick at it every chance I get. It seems to be staying just fine.

    I use this special adhesive for gluing foam to concrete walls. It does not eat into the foam like most Liquid Nail type of adhesives do. I'll bet it would be pex friendly??

    I would guess most residential applications would have a new floor covering added soon after the tube install. PAP may stay long enough for a new tile to be installed, for instance.

    One contractor, attending the show, may try it to retro fit a large manufacturing facility, in slab. In this case perhaps a deeper 1-1/2" cut with the tube glued in. Then a good high psi hybrid concrete or cement mix squirted into the grooves, as the finish floor patch. FloorStone may work for this?

    Sure would be easy to spot where the tubes are for equipment fastening :)

    I know a few E2 homeowners that would benefit from this tool, if it is workable. Much less work and destruction than a slab demo inside a finished home!

    If it is workable it could pay it's way quickly with a 3K price tag.

    You would also have a high quality vac for shop use, as well as a floor saw for cutting slabs either dectoritivly of for crack contro. Really only the curve cutter is unique.

    hot rod

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  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    I'd love to see those concrete chain saws

    work! Looks like a good way to get square cuts that round blades can't produce.

    As far as dust, I like US Saws idea of collecting it right at the tool. Might be a bit more of a challange with a chain saw!

    hot rod

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  • vhlaundry
    vhlaundry Member Posts: 41
    Concrete Saw

    I am a homeowner and not an expert, I am just trying to figure out a "total" solution on my own with this sites help....Reason being, I have not come across anyone yet in Minneapolis that seems to have a passion, experience or skillset as those here. I had some hydronic specialists come by last week. One of there strategies was to jack hammer my whole basement out, then lay pex and repour. Seemed like alot of work....and potencial risk. Is this common practice?

    Am I correct that this solution here, is just a matter of cutting grooves, laying pex in, then pouring expoxy or resin based concrete into the grooves flush......viola, hydronic ready??

    Do you give much up since the underside of the 50+ year concrete has not foam backing?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Dust

    Use water when cutting concrete. I would rather vacum up slurry than the dust. Dry or wet it will all be messy but at least it will be contained to the floor,walls,and you not all over the dwelling, and in your lungs. You would make OSHA very happy.

    Has anyone ever seen a bridge deck get grooved? They use a gang saw machine. Hot Rods right the concrete cutting industry just needs direction for an application....you guys.

    If they make tuck pointing blades for a 4" grinder. They can make a blade for 3/8" pex. Only issue is wear and the radius. The chainsaw cutter could do the rough radiuses.

    I think a gang blade design would be best, 4 blade. That way when your outside blades get wore from the sides you could rotate them to the center. You would not need large Dia. blades so blade cost could be kept reasonable

    Soft cut makes a nice all aluminum walk behind saw for the sizable job its gas powered though.

    The only real issues I see are the arbor length to gang blades, and a nice electric walk behind saw design for user comfort that can be water safe. Concrete router for perfect radiuses "for the apprentice to run for sure".
    Gordy
  • Al Corelli
    Al Corelli Member Posts: 454



    What about underslab insulation?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546


    Sounds like they got it whipped Hot Rod, maybe a little honing around the edges for the saw gear, the blades are really the easy part of the solution. If it were me, I would much rather have an extra hand with a wet vac sucking up slurry than try to contain, and battle that much dust from a cutting operation like that.

    The bridge deck groover has a vacum system that sucks up the slurry. Leaves a little residue, but does a good job.

    As far as slab insulation goes. My basement has no slab insulation I'm sure "50's" ,and it does a beautiful job heating. They covered the perimeter losses by staying away from the perimeter about 30" with the tubing. Figure that area is usually slated for furniture placement anyway. Not the most efficient I know compared to todays technology but it does still work with low supply temps 115* range. My rental house next door is a slab on grade with no insulation "60's", it works also.

    Gordy
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    Depending on the vintage

    most slabs done in the 80 and 90's had under slab insulation. That would be the most common retro fit I would see. E-2 jobs were early to mid 1990 installs.

    I too have worked on quite a few older (1950 vintage)uninsulated basement, and even slab on grade homes around here. Some had that tar coated cellotex as edge insulation. They heat alright but do have a bit more loss, and consume more fuel than insulated jobs. Especially the slab on grade jobs without perimeter edge insulation.

    That edge loss is more of a concern than the slab due to the wide delta t it will see with outdoor temperature against the edge of the slab.

    Generally the snow melts away about 2 feet from the edge of unisulated edge slab jobs! Pretty easy to spot these homes in winter time :)

    hot rod

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  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Snow Melt

    The rental house has snow melt for the perimeter walks with no tubing:)) I know its less efficient, sometimes the lesser of the two evils. Still would rather have the radiant.


    Gordy
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