What to look for in steam boiler installer/service person?

Adam_24

Hi David,

Thanks so much for the suggestion about getting help with the hot water from someone who travels. We are making do right now, with the laundromat and paper plates and showers at friends houses for the most part. We had already been in contact with a number of contractors prior to finding this site, so we are trying to work with them right now and evaluating which of them might be skilled with steam systems.

I did look through the 'find a professional' area and see one or two people I can call if it doesn't work out with the contractors we are talking to now. Many of the people in that section are a distance away from us and we really would like to have a long term relationship with whoever installs our system and who will service it and troubleshoot and work on any future problems. We feel that in the winter in New England, if someone is a long way away, they aren't necessarily going to have an easy time getting to you.

As for the book, I just read a sample page of the book and it is quite readable and funny actually. I ordered it this morning by phone and maybe I will get it by Saturday, I hope. Thanks David and everyone for the suggestions, I appreciate it!

:-)

Adam_24

What to look for in steam boiler installer/service person?

Hi,

We are trying to choose a company to install and service a replacement steam system. We asked around and got names but we are having trouble deciding who to go with. We have lost our trust, due to previous service person's performance and having to replace a Weil Mclain boiler after only 15 years.

No one who we have to choose from so far seems to be everything we think we want. We could go with the company recommended the most, but when they came out to give estimate, the person who came had to check with home base, and made comments about not ever getting a straight answer from them. Then they didn't offer us anything in writing, covering the estimate, what equipment, etc.

Second company was matter of fact, sent out a salesperson and took measurements, photos, answered questions with one sylable answers, but sent us by email, a written proposal, outlining what would be installed, removed, etc. Their price was the higest, the equipment they recommended was a Weil McLain SGO3 and a Beckett oil burner. They are also further away from us and we are wondering if this will be a disadvantage in the winter in an emergency.

The third person was a plumber, and is going to call later with an estimate. Tried to answer all questions thoroughly, open to either WM or Burnham boiler, not sure what burner. Waiting for an estimate. I didn't get the impression he put in a LOT of steam systems, but he seemed to know what he was talking about and didn't say anything that seemed wrong.

And these are just the companies that are offering us estimates. I want to go back to all of them and ask the right questions to help us decide not only who will be the best installer but who will be the best service person for the equipment. Can someone offer me the right questions to ask to determine this?

Thanks
:-)

DanHolohan

This book

We Got Steam Heat will show you how to separate the pros from the knuckleheads by asking the right questions, and by watching what they do when they show up to look over the job.

Adam_24

That looks like something that would be helpful, but we have been without a boiler and hot water for a week and haven't the time to get a book and read it through. Can anyone help us out here?

Thanks :-)

Ken_40

Use the

"find a professional" search found above of this website.

There's bound to be someone waiting for your call you could trust.

DanHolohan

My second

suggestion!

Dan Foley

Time

You wrote "...haven't the time to get a book and read it through."

A steam boiler replacement is what I would call a long term investment. If you get a knucklehead to put the new one in, you will live with the results for a long time. If I were in your shoes, I would educate myself to insure I made the right decision. "We Got Steam Heat" by our fine host is the best place to start. I hand out a copy on every steam boiler estimate I go on. Best of luck! -DF

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

John_102

Taking time (an unsolicited endorsement)

The book is worth the admission, an engaging read & full of sound advice. It & LASH have culled several knuckleheads for me. You'll laugh (& read bits to your wife). You'll drive your friends bonkers. You'll see your steam system in a new light.

Dan Foley couldn't be more correct. What's an extra few days in the scheme of years of satisfactory service from your boiler?

Adam_24

Thanks John and all for the recommendations. I am very interested in the book and appreciate the suggestion.

:-)

D107

Possible to get an inexpensive temporary repair first

to get your heat and hw back while you're checking out contractors? What state and city are you located in?
This site has many steam experts who are willing to travel. I'm sure if you order that book Dan can get it sent out real quick.

Good luck,

David (Homeowner)

D107

Perhaps a consultation from a known Steam pro might help

You're welcome Adam. I'm suggesting this because one of the difficulties with threads like these is that we can't know who you're dealing with there. If you spoke to one of the pros listed near you--and questioned them as well about their familiarity with steam since a) not every pro listed is a steam person and b)the pro ads are advertisements and require screening as well--that might help. Better yet tell us your city and state as there are a number of well-known steam gurus on the wall--not all of whom advertise. Other wallies might immediately tell you who to contact in your area. Since I don't get the feeling of alot of steam expertise in your area I would get a pro down there for a consult which, along with Dan's book--could give you a way to to go.

The steam guys on this site not only have the knowledge but they are passionate about doing the job right. You might even have one of them design the system that your local guy installs if distance is an issue.

David

D107

PS

Just re-read your last post. You are right about longterm service. However it's probably much easier for a non-steam expert to service an already existing well-installed system than to fully install a good system. A good install is a great longterm strategy.

PS I meant a short-term repair from someone local but no matter. since everything's off now perhaps you'll forego the repair stage.

David

Adam_24

Yes, David, I did find when looking through the pro list that only one person in a 50 mile radius from me listed steam problems as something that he focused on. Others seem to be more involved in installing hydronic and gas and other systems.

I also am aware of some being simply ads by pros that I have no way of evaluating without investing a lot of time to do that and still how would I really know the difference. I have ordered the book, but I don't think I can wait until I get it to make a decision on going with someone to install my system. Tomorrow is Friday. We have lost this whole week already evaluating and researching something that most people don't do and we wouldn't be doing if we hadn't gotten really burned with the last heating contractor. If I don't make a decision today or tomorrow, I am going to have a hard time even getting on someone's schedule for next week. On top of which, the contractors we are talking to, are now starting to feel like they don't understand why we are in such a hurry to get the work done, and not making a quicker decision. We are facing a 2nd weekend of no hot water and although we are making the best of it, it is a really large inconvenience for us at a time that is not easy for us.

We have narrowed down the local people to 3 oil companies and 2 plumbers. We are realizing that although the plumbers might be qualified to install the system, we question how much more experience an oil company would have with a steam system, since they are servicing them all the time, while the plumbers install them, warranty them for a year and then they are done. They also are installing a lot less systems and their price came in high. $5800. without the indirect water system..just a WM or Burnham boiler, our choice, he didn't care, and a Beckett burner, his recommendation.

One of the oil companies was gotten from a list generated from the heating guru on This Old House and he chooses those on his list and they can't buy their way onto the list. This company is a larger company, and does 100s of installs a year and was the most professional presentation, sending out a salesperson, emailing us a written estimate the same day. Answered all my questions and welcomed as many as I had. His estimate was for a WM Gold boiler size 3 compartments, with a Beckett burner, his recommendation. I asked him why not a Carlin burner, he said either one, 6 of one, 1/2 a dozen in the other. I wish he had recommended the Carlin burner and a size 4 boiler, as the system we had that failed had a beckett burner and the size of the old boiler was a 4 compartment and everyone else was recommending a Carlin burner and a 4 compartment boiler, so I wonder about that. I don't know if this is an important issue or unimportant. His price came in at $5600. for just that install. The indirect water system never came up. We have a tankless on there now with a 50 gallon storage tank. When I asked him if he had any experts in steam in the company, he told me they have the leading steam expert in New England at their firm, Bill Doherty. Have no way of knowing if that is right or not.

Another oil company was recommended by a contractor/engineer friend who builds houses for a living and used this person once or twice to fix a heating problem. He has been a big disappointment to me. Initially, he spent a lot of time talking to me about how they install, and do business and I thought he was on the mark, He said he couldn't install for 2 weeks and I originally just took him off the list, but I went back to ask him more questions and decided at some point it was better to evaluate by who would give the best install, rather than who could come the quickest and gave him another chance. He originally quoted me a price range over the phone and where he thought we would fall in that range. 4800-6800 and he thought we would be about $5200. He was the one who suggested the indirect hot water system and the expensive stainless steel water tank. He was recommending a WM Gold with a Carlin burner. Family owned, father and old time steam person taught him and his brothers how to do steam and sounded confident with them. Claims he installs about 20 steam systems a year. Finally had him come out to give me an estimate yesterday and he comes in with a $6300. estimate. This sent me through the roof. I am so annoyed by this and a few other little things that I am taking him off my list. He shouldn't have told me around $5200. and then come in a $1,000 higher. Plus we have a straight forward install. Basement with a bulkhead. According to him there were two pipes that were copper that he thought should be changed to iron and other than that the rest of the install was straight forward. He said he mailed me an estimate and I might get it today or not. So not sure if there is any explanation for the $6300. on the written estimate. At some point he did suggest taking out and replacing all the radiator vents in the house, and he might have added that into his estimate. At any rate, when he came out yesterday, I questioned him on the advisability of doing that, because if something is not broke why fix it. I know of two radiators that have problems and I thought start there. I have nightmares thinking of him taking out all the valves and suddenly things are working worse than before or making more noise or whatever. But aside from that, replacing two pipes shouldn't account for that difference in his original guess and what he is quoting me now.

Another oil company was recommended by someone we work with who has used them for 20 years and has never had a problem, and when we called local heating supply companies, their name was offered to us 4 different times. When they came out, they right away thought they didn't like the way the piping had been done previously, they saw a WM 67? series boiler and a Beckett Burner, and he was talking to himself asking 'why did he use that?' refering to the burner. They right away suggested a WM Gold boiler with a Carlin burner, with an electronic probe instead of a floater for the lwco and an auto feed. They offered a price of around $5,000 and said they would find a way to squeeze in the work in the next few days. Unfortunately, all our questions had to be addressed to the owner and he was not easy to talk to. Didn't seem to appreciate a lot of questions and I get the sense he is trying to do us a favor by rushing to get the work done and sees our questions as a lack of appreciation for his efforts. So, I could have had them do this work on Monday of last week and held them off calling other companies and evaluating what is being suggested and getting estimates.


So that is where we are at now. David, I appreciate so much your continuing to respond to my posts and offering so much help. I am sorry to write such a long post, but hopefully you will have a clearer idea of what we are dealing with. We are in Eastern Massachusetts less than 15 miles outside of Boston. If you could comment or anyone here could comment on how we are doing with the companies we are getting estimates from it would be a big help.

Thanks very much.

Adam_24

Hi David, just saw this post. I forgot to mention to you. According to everyone who has looked at our equipment, the boiler is cracked and there is standing water in the combustion chamber? No one has suggested a temporary repair was possible.

:-(

D107

Calling steam wallies 15 miles out of Boston

Well I can appreciate your urgency and a bit of head-spin from all the estimates. Again i'm only a homeowner and now that you've posted your location you should get some feedback. I wouldn't get hung up about burner choices too much; if you get a steam expert in there you'll hopefully feel confident in their choices. Prices are not usually discussed on the wall since they vary so much regionally, and no price is a good one if the install is not done right.

Hopefully you will get some steam pros names very soon. If not email Dan and he can probably put you on to someone near Boston. You sound uncomfortable with some of the local people and maybe you can get an expert opinion this weekend.
Keep in mind that you might need more than just a boiler replacement. Venting of the mains, flushing of returns, etc.
It may cost more than you imagined but doing a good job now will be your best longterm bet.

Good luck.

David

Anna Conda

As tedious and hand-wringing as it is, you're doing the right thing by hanging in there and choosing your contractor carefully. The heating system is the heart and circulatory system of your home and what you are doing is heart surgery. You are choosing a surgeon to operate on your home's heart. It's amazing how many people take their own hearts for granted, let alone their homes' hearts. Your shivering now will not be in vain (vein?) later, many years from now when your home's new heart is still beating properly, keeping you cozy and your wallet fat.

Adam_24

Thanks David, I hadn't thought of emailing Dan, but that is probably a good idea. I guess I was trying to determine whether someone knew what they were talking about, by the boiler/burner recommendations. I suppose it is not a way to determine it. I read a post on here where someone suggested that was 'to them' the best steam arrangement and why I decided to listen to him over others, I have no idea..lol. Figuring out who is the expert and who isn't, is for a layperson a daunting task. Even what Dan terms 'knuckleheads' seem to think they are experts and to a layperson can sound like them. That is where the book comes into help, I know.

Sorry, I didn't realize I shouldn't mention the prices. It was probably posted somewhere and in my rush I skipped over it. Yes, your point is well taken, that if it is not done right, it isn't a bargain. I hadn't thought that there would be more to it than the boiler/burner install, as no one who came out indicated there would be. I will try to keep an open mind.

Thanks again

Adam_24

Thank you Anna :-) That is a great analogy. We are trying to hang in there with it. :-)

Adam_24

Hi David,

I just wanted to let you know, I did find one person on the list for my area that listed steam problems as something he did and I called him. He told me he only did gas heat and he didn't know anyone in the area that installed steam systems, but he suggested that going with the local oil companies would be my best bet. I did email Dan but haven't heard from him yet.

Thanks again... :-)

D Logan Ireland Oil Co Inc

Temporary hot water fix

If you decide on contracting with a local company ask them if they have an electric water heater that can be used on a temporary basis.We have done this many times and it will give you some breathing room to make a good educated decision on the Steam install.
If you have a washer dryer arrangement in your basement you can use the 220 volt plug in connection for your power source and the hot and cold valves for your water supply.You will need to also attach a dryer cord to the water heater to match the 220 plug. We also put Y connections on top of the water heater so you can reattach the washing machine hoses to one side.Afteryou fill the water heater plug it in, open up your valves and you will have hot water thruout the house.

Ron Schroeder

Adam Price isn't everything

I would rule out anyone whom is not concerned with copper in a steam pipe, it needs to be Black Iron once your in the wet return copper is ok. A burner is a burner for the most part as long as it is rated for the boiler you are using and there I would go with which ever the installer/repair person is comfortable with. As to a higher price an indirect tank is going to make for a higher price install bottom line. Now the only way to size a stem boiler is by measuring the radiators, has anyone done that if you can't fill the radiators with steam you in trouble and if you over steam the system its wasted fuel up the chimney. Just some good points to judge your contractor on.