Do you lose your cool like I do?

J.C.A._3

Best (flipping) advice you can give!!!!

To all, Remember...YOUR name is going on the permit and justification for each and every job.To compromise that, for a price...could turn out to be CRIMINAL..

Stick to YOUR standards. If the building owner doesn't want to listen, WALK AWAY. As quickly as possible will be the ONLY way. When you run into someone like this, cut your losses and take it as a lesson. Don't even waste your time on someone who won't listen to your reasoning.

We, as contractors HAVE the power!If the bonehead who's running the job won't listen....NEXT. Chris

frank_25

I HAD to say it today...

Me and my "partner" Mike looked at a 100 HP steamer replacement today. The poor ole gal was heavy in the rear, sinking by the aft into a sea of broken concrete. To compensate for the strain on the 6" system piping, someone added a 6" long "thimble" in the boiler riser. Boiler feed was into the bottom cross T at the LWCO tree [ya know, the one at middle height] of this built in 1978 Rockmills. Boiler and return drains could barely be seen, no less ever used. #4 oil all over the place, no A dimention, check valves and water traps all over the place along with water bugs in the debris filled sump pump pit. I asked the dope, I mean super when he last drained water. He pointed to the feeder. Said it didn't need to be flushed, water went in AUTOMATICALLY. When I told Mike to make note of the obvious asbestos present, the dope said in no uncertain terms that there was no asb. another contractor told him so. Now, between me and Mike, we both have 40 yrs. on the job, think about how many boilers we installed, how many bags of asb. we ripped open and used on fittings, or the lenght of aircell we put up. Now this ignorant, alien dope is arguing w/ me about what aircell is all about. If it looks like a/c, it is a/c, 'cause nothing but a/c looks like a/c. [duh]is what I told him. He walked away. The job needs a new three phase service into the blr rm. I'm looking for and asking where is the electric head of service, as this building has a cellar that was catacombs, rooms and halls all over, going every which way but up. The SOB [that's super-on-board]points to the boiler sub-panel which was 220. "That's not what I want" "you dun't kneed anything else" "Don't tell me what I need. You need a lesson on this system." "I bean doong theese ten yrs." "Well ya haven't been doin' it right" "I know my yob meester, what you know?" "I know i'm gonna be your worst nightmare if you don't shut up. C'mon Mike, we're outta here." I'm gonna add for agrivation on this one. bwdik?ijap

Christian Egli_2

I'll tell you what you need...

A cool pitcher of beer.

Why do you need so much power anyways? Do you plan on bringing the boiler back to life the way Frankenstein is given a pulse? Poor thing, it must be completely ossified. An automatic feeder and no blow down ever.

Tie an anchor to the guy and throw him overboard into the sea of concrete.

Good luck on this fun job

Keith_8

Been there

done that, You are talking with a moron,as if you didn't know.
The only way you may get thru is if you are able to convince the building owner that his super has cost him considerable money in efficiency and longevity of the boiler. Not to mention liability issues with all of the loose asbestos lying around. Safe to say that Sammy the super moron has safety's jumped out? You bet, safety's are for cowards.

I have been thru similiar situations, Once I did a survey on a boiler room in a nursing home. (2) Smith 28 A 10 sections each. The boilers were less than 4 years old with all kinds of problems. They were installed by a company that can't possibly service boilers because not one rule you would follow to give the future service guy's a break was followed. No air seperator or means of removing air could be found. When I mentioned this to the super he said it wasn't required. When I mentioned his fan coils must get air bound his responce was that it only happens on overtime, wink wink. How about all these 3 way valves with the actuators disconnected and hanging in mid air by the BX? Also not required. What about the 3 oil fired hot water heaters with the common smoke pipe stuck in the boiler breaching? If the boilers are running at the same time the hot water heater fires there is no possible draft at all, black streaks around the blast tubes on the hot water heater, not a problem says the super.

I could continue but you get the drift. I make it my point to find the owner of the building, make some suggestions without crucifying the super. You would think if the guy was smart enough to own the building he could figure out what was going on? No, hey what ever the super say's, goes. After all he takes care of the system. No,he is destoying the system and charging you OT to do it.

I might as well get back in my car and drive away because at that point I was talking to hear myself talk. So that is what I did, good by, good luck and good ridance.

You can't win them all and sometimes you win by walking away.

Keith

What a shame,

Boilerpro_5

Just had that same type of thing on a smaller scale....

Looked over an ancient coal to gas conversion boiler with old direct fired water heater going up a 35 foot chimney (with about the top 15 feet exposed in the unheated attic and above the roof) that the brickwork was coming apart at the top. The unit was very neatly completely encapulated in Asbestos. Told them the chimney was on its way out, the house would be very difficulst to insulate, so the only way to really cut the fuel bill was to go with a mod con. Suggested an indirect too. Spent about a day looking over things and working things out with the owners like venting placement and upgrades to insulation. Showed them how to clean the convectors, etc. Since the home was solid masonry construction...All walls, floors interior and exterior.....the installation was basically a commercial type of install....hard conduit, threaded anchors and hangers. Gave them a very through contract with everything throughly explained and why. Waited a few weeks and called them. They had some other contractor come in and give them a much lower price to pull out the steel asbestos covered beast and slap in a chimney vent boiler (85 percenter), the contrator thought it was cast iron, but if steel it would cost extra. "Oh the chimney had a clay liner so it doesnt need to be lined. You're only gaining a few percentage points and those fancy boilers will cost you hundreds of dollars a year in repairs." Some people only hear what they want to hear, even after I told them that the chimney will become dangerous, its use was against code, that the boiler I was recommending has been around for 12 to 15 years and has proven to be quite reliable, and that asbestos must be removed by certified contractors. Sort of puts someone in a tough spot, were it is likely building codes are being violated,and federal and state laws are being violated. Funny they just spent thousands on a commercial kitchen.....Well you will get your money back when you sell when you put it into the kitchen. They only plan on staying a few years so I guess they will just dump the high fuel bills and asbestos contaimnation on the next owner.

Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

EBEBRATT-Ed

Unfortunatly been there done that. Just Walk Away, Just Walk Away.



ED

Mad Dog_2

Some people are just morons

and you can try to beat them over the head with logic until sunday, but you'll never convince a dope. Move on, you're wasting your talent and valuable time on these putzes. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

clammy

OH YEAH

OH yeah i get miffed some times so bad you could cook a egg on my skull cap but as of recently i have found out that i have the start of high blood pressure and stress kills so i do as ed and mad dog stae just walk away i know it's very hard some times but it's better then making your self sick stupid is as stupid does don,t waste you breath on them i in a effort to reduce my person stress level i have given up on some contractors just is not worth the stress and plus it's not nice to have any one see in a pissed state of mind peace and good luck clammy

Scott Kneeland

WhenI get into a situation like that I just walk away.
Remember"some times you win by loosing"

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

frank_25

I ain't leaving....

...without bidding the job. This is one of those typical slum l(o)(a)rd buildings. Don't spend a dime on maintenance, that's what keeps me busy. [You guys may remember past posts of my "Tour of duty" in Coney Island last year] I can deal w/ the management people, I have a presentation ready, it's the super I'll put in the fire-box and run pre-purge a couple-a-times before I let him out.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Thats right. We are supposed to be the "experts" (but don't be a know it all) even if we don't know everything. You should listen to the customer but if their not makin sense and don't want to listen to you GET OUT OF THEIR


Ed

J.C.A._3

YEP!!!