changing the water in the boiler

Steamhead (in transit)

that there is sludge in the bottom of the boiler, or oil sitting on top of the boiler water. Time to call a pro to flush or skim it.

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johnnyge

changing the water in the boiler

I will like to know if it is a good idea to drain the boiler complete and put new fresh water in it at the beginning of the cold season,as part of the maintenance, or just drain the dirty water and make up with fresh water. Also when the boiler is runnind the water level in the side glass is inestable going up and down and sometines actived the low water shut off swich. My is a one pipe steam heating.

Ron Schroeder

Keep old water as long as possible,

that is better than fresh, fresh adds oxygen which creates corrosion. Yes you will need to purge off the mud in the low water cut off, bouncing of the water line is an probably an indication that the wet returns need to be cleaned.

ttekushan_3

bouncing water line

Bouncing water line indicates a water surface problem-- usually oily substances, in my experience. Never could solve the problem without skimming and/or surface blow-off. I'm with Steamhead on this one. Call a professional, since the original boiler installation probably leaves no provision for doing this. Oh. and don't let someone come in and throw a few chemicals in the system and leave. That's the quick and dirty. There's a legitimate place for chemicals, but using them to avoid devoting the proper amount of time required for this kind of job is not one of them.

-Terry

Ron D

is it a problem?

****-uming the low water cut off isn't activated, is there a problem with the "bouncing water"? Is it correct to assume that oil on the water surface reduces the ability to produce steam? Or is thois one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type problems?

ttekushan_3

follow the bouncing water...

Golly. There's always that fine line. A small amount of water line bounce is perfectly normal for many newer boilers and firing rates. But a bounce that sends enough water out of the boiler to shut it down is too much. The surface impurities that cause the water to sail off into the system are causing "wet" steam. Wet steam means there's water in the steam, contaminating the water vapor. Since steam heat heats efficiently because of the latent heat of water vapor, the entrained water carried over destroys the efficiency of the system. Many inefficient and ineffective and unbalanced systems I've worked on have this problem.

Where do these impurities come from? The original boiler installation, ANY pipe work on the system, etc. where impurities can be introduced. Amazingly, if these are surface impurities, draining or blowing down the boiler from the bottom will never get rid of them. They will stay in the system indefinitly unless removed. I recently worked on a system that "panted" on start up and absolutely refused to balance properly. The boiler had been replaced more than five years before, and this problem persisted until a thorough surface blow off was done. Even I was surprised at how radically the system's performance improved. The "panting" disappeared and the system achieved balance and quietude!

BTW, this is why the introduction of a good water treatment will appear to cause water line trouble. The oily impurities are able to travel with the wet steam and distribute over the entire system, robbing efficient heat transfer. The water treatment carries over with the steam and the impurities are being washed away from the piping and internal radiator heat transfer surfaces and are winding up back in the boiler--near the water's surface. In these cases of severe contamination, I've literally had to perform controlled continuous surface blow down for hours or days of operation, maintaining the proper level of pH with the water treatment. But it WILL settle down. When it does, its truly amazing how much better and more efficiently the system operates.

-Terry

johnnyge

thank you all for the advise. Now, how i am suppose to skimmed the sludge on top of the water line. I don't know if what i have been doing in the past is correct. I opened the drain on the side glass and close the top valve (steam section) and opened the botton (water) i get dirty water for while, then clean water. close the valve. After that mi sight glass is clean ,but i have to repeat that step often to keep the water on side glass clean.
Its that the way to skimmed the sludge on the surface?.
PS I do that with the boiler running>

Ron Schroeder

A good read for you

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=54

Dean_7

boiler water

I'm just a homeowner but I have a one pipe steam system. First listen to steamhead. Next buy Dan's book "We Got Steam Heat". Then get "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". if you have steam heat you really need them. Then after reading them you will know more than most about your system.

ttekushan_3

You're on to something

in the way you are doing the cleaning. What you are accomplishing is the cleaning out of areas that will accumulate muck, like the small passages of the sight glass. I have a contraption that's essentially a funnel that's hooked to the sight glass assembly, with an attached hose that drains to a suitable floor drain. After doing precisely what you have done, I leave the sight glass drain open, close the bottom (water) and slowly open the top (steam). If water droplets appear on the inside of the glass, you have much water in the steam vapor. The vapor in the glass should be invisible only becoming visible as it condenses in the open air. If the situation is bad, blasts of water will come through there. Leaving this valve partially open will actually drive the impurities off the surface into the drain. But it takes hours of operation to accomplish. Personal judgement must prevail as to the appropriateness of leaving the upper valve cracked open for a day or two. Factors include: IS THERE AN AUTOMATIC FILL? If not, the system will shut down on low water and stay there. Is there any chance someone else has access to the room when you step away for awhile? How often is the system actually running? I don't recommend leaving this arrangement unattended for any significant length of time. I've only done so under very very controllable situations. So make yourself comfortable in the boiler room for awhile...

Which returns me to an earlier point. Where does all this "stuff" come from? As mentioned before, impurites introduced into the system by repair work can remain indefinitely unless you clean them out. But what if they return without adequate explanation? This can be maddening. If the muck is very rusty, it may be a sign of excess oxygen--too much fresh make up water. If water loss continues, the issues can return. Where is the water going? Usually its going where you can't see it. Supply or return lines that go through closed crawl spaces can be a nightmare. So too with buried return lines in garage or basement floors. They rot and lose water into the soil, unless of course they are also pulling a bit of the slurry back into the boiler on shut down. Yuck.

So there's a few things to try. Of course, none of us out here have a crystal ball of adequate bandwidth to see the whole context of your particular heating system (internet magic notwithstanding). You will sooner or later need a set of qualified eyes to look at the system, if not for this particular problem, for combustion adjustments, cleaning and testing of the safeties.

-Terry

johnnyge

thank you again for the advise. I will try your suggestion on keeping the drain crack open and the drain open in the sight glass, and I know I will not leave the bolier unattended in the process. Also I do bought the two book that Dean suggested, Thats how I find out about this forum. Only I wish I would it know sooner.

gerry gill

its okay to drain the boiler out

completely before each heating season so long as you are doing it to clean the muck out of the bottom, and not just to drain the boiler..picture boiling a hot dog in a clean pot, and then picture boiling a hot dog in a pot with 2'' of muck on the bottom..we open the return plug and insert a homemade wand with a garden hose attached and a 90 degree head on it and clean the bottoms of the boilers before the season starts..thats the reason we have to drain the boiler..so if your cleaning the bottom, its necessary to drain the boiler..if not your just bringing on water needlessly..always steam the boiler for 30 minutes or so after filling with new water to drive off oxygen..near boiler piping can also affect the water carry over at the sight glass.

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johnnyge

Is it possible to connect the water supply of the boiler from the hot water line of the hot water heater instead of the regular water. My idea is to add already hot water to the boiler when it needed. Its that considered correct or goes again any code.

Ron Schroeder

My only concern

on the hot water would be if you are using an automatic feeder and you crap up the seat with minerals coming out of the water and having it leak by.

gerry gill

we use hot water all the time..

alot of the minerals have already precipitated out in the water heater itself..just have to use an appropriate water feeder..hydrolevel vxt lets you use hot water by virtue of its temperature rating.

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