steam system two pipe question

clammy

I have ran into a few jobs where the traps where located remotely in the basement and this was for not only the first floor but the second who knows the reason this was on a trane system .As ken stated pull the unions off on both the supply and returns if you find a brass insert possibable on the inlet and no trap on the outlet they may be metering the correct amount of steam into the rad that it could condense thus the rad there fore not needing a trap but the system must have a vapor stat on it to operate properly , your system could also have small water seal traps like brommwells they look like a funny return ell or maybe are all your returns dropped below the boiler water line then it just each rad dripped to the wet return do you have any air vents on any rads ?be nosey and look it's much better always to look before you leap peace and good luck clammy

GW

steam system two pipe question

I have a steam system two pipe question; I'm pretty OK with one pipe, but two pipe causes me to scratch my head.

Within two days I was two different systems that had two pipes at the radiators, yet there were no traps at the rads, and there were typical main vents at the end of the returns. Is this unusual? Please help! I just don't to do a boiler swap and then find myself in trouble.

Thanks,

Gary

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Ken_40

Occassionally,

there are no traps per se!

The fittings may be wierd; both the feed valve and the return pipe fittings may have unusual "castings" flaps, restricters, 'U'-traps, etc.

Could you reduce to 700 pixels a digital pic of both the feed and return outlet(s)?

GW

reply

I'm realy stumped because one of these jobs was convectors! I did see one trap on one convector (trap in the basmement). I did not take any pictures, i could go back if need be. Still perplexed-

Gary

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GW

dry returns

this is like a two pipe, parellel even (in appearence). It's the freakiest thing (because I'm stumped!), it really looks like a water system until you get to the sight glass on the boiler.

Is the secret in the convector connections? There is no pump on this system... unless it's invisible. All dry returns until they drop at the boiler like a regular one-pipe.

Does the fact that it's convectors clue anybody in? it must be what, 1940s or 50s? The boiler is a huge beast with some sort of collector header, two equalizers, asbestos everywhere. What a sight.

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gerry gill

thee may be orifices

built into the convector ends..

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Steamhead (in transit)

Clammy and Gerry nailed it

The convector system is almost certainly Orifice Vapor, and I'd be willing to bet it's a Trane. You MUST run this type of system with a Vaporstat. The orifices on the convector inlets meter the steam so it does not reach the dry return IF the pressure is kept low. Vent the heck out of the steam main on this system.

The radiator system might be an Orifice system or the elbows may have water seals in them- see the Richardson, O-E and early Trane systems in Chapter 15 of Lost Art- or the water seal may be in the bushing if it is eccentric with the tapping at the top- see the Vapor Regulator Co. system.

By all means, take pics!

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GW

thanks

thanks steam dudes; perhaps I can return the wisdom some day.

Gary

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