Not heating...but reasoning....

David Sutton_6

Chris i see both sides here, think back ....way back.. Clark Gable was fine 3000 bucks for saying "i dont give a dam"...lucy and ricky slept in diff beds...kids were polite...people sat on the front porch...the AFA has a place also. if its ok for one thing to change way not another... if its gone this far why cant it go further. who says this is good and this is bad??people left to there own will slid down and down and down...its our nature, we have excepted to much in the famous call of our rights...this world realy stinks and i wish i didn't have to leave it to my kids....

Yes there still is a lot of good ....but how long will it last?? if we keep excepting just one more thing...

What make it worst is when they use a thing like 9/11 to start a fight...


JMHO....David

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J.C.A._3

I hope the link posts !

No matter your thoughts on "profanity" or the content of this REPLAY, of a previous broadcast, will someone PLEASE explain to the AFA that the television also has an OFF button!!!!

They used to have one that controlled "brightness" too, but apparently...it didn't work. Chris

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060903/D8JTKED81.html

J.C.A._3

David,

I too, agree that there should be limits...but this IS reality, at its worst. The language isn't something some Hollywood producer or writer thought belonged in this scene...This is what happened!

My point is to let the people make their decisions. If the head of the AFA, OR YOU... choose to NOT let your children be subject to it, so be it.

The main point is that they, and YOU have a choice. If YOU wanted to watch this, you most likely wouldn't do so, in front of your children...unless they were old enough to grasp the enormity of the situation...which is/was REAL !

As is most of the technology we embrace daily, parental guidance IS suggested....but not always enforced. These folks HAVE to understand that if they don't want to be themselves, OR have their children exposed to it....they have a choice.(parenting falls under that catagory!) Why take that choice away from the rest of us who KNOW that this is how most people will....and did react that day?

Although I agree with you on some of your post, I'm going to have to state that the ultimate responsibility lies with the parents. If they DON'T want their children to see this....READ THEM A BOOK !, turn on Blue's Clues or SpongeBob if you please....but I don't care what they think...They aren't ever going to change the reality of what happened that day...swear words or not ! I lost 2 customers and a friend in this fiasco. That too is reality...and won't change any, if firefighters say a bad word on T.V.

Know what I mean? Chris

David Sutton_6

i know what you mean Chris..

this is a moral debate, not a 9/11 debate...theres a bigger picture here.. i beat my thumb with a hammer and i yell #@$#, 40 years ago they beat there thunmb with a hammer and they probly said.... oh my! that hurt.....because they knew someone else was there..today most of us dont care, and at times me too. the point is, its the exceptance ..not the event. And we all know, you have to take a test to drive but just need the right parts to have kids!

Chris take a good hard look at the kids in the world....and ask yourself where did the love and respect for one and another go? if they did not get it at home they sure aint gonna get it in the street..

And thank you for a great debate !! we can disscuss this and still be friends !!...David

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Steamhead (in transit)

This has been going on for centuries

before TV and radio, it centered around books, newspapers and any other form of expression in use at that time. Totalitarian regimes such as Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia banned and burned books. People were jailed or killed for saying or writing things the dominant political group didn't like. We saw some of this during the McCarthy period in the 1950s, when he had luminaries like Pete Seeger blacklisted as Communists. McCarthy had an insatiable craving for power that fed on itself and hurt a lot of people. We're starting to see some of it again with consolidation of media ownership.

YouTube is down at the moment, but there is a video on there of a Crossfire episode where a self-righteous twit from the Washington Times attempted to debate Frank Zappa about restricting sales of records to minors. That guy never had a chance dealing with someone like FZ.

I recall hearing about AFA back in the eighties- they were just another well-funded pressure group and I doubt anything has changed. It would be interesting to follow their money trail and see just who is behind them.

I'm with Chris, FZ, Howard Stern and all the rest who say that government has no business censoring or "regulating" any kind of content. The responsibility for determining what kids see is solely that of parents.

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J.C.A._3

David,

This has NOTHING to do with our exchange on morality OR parenting...but something that Mr. Zappa stated in the interview that Steamhead is referring to.

He basically told the "counterpoint" adversary, that,and I quote... "these are words!" If the government can control the "words", it ultimately means that they will control the outlets for the "words", and that entails the means of which all of us, in this day and age receive our "news".

Talk about a conflict of interest!...An interesting joke came across my computer this weekend.

(one senator speaking to another)...I think it's great that we are going to be giving the Iraqi people a copy of our constitution to use for a baseline. The other senator responded that it was a great idea...we're not using it right now anyway!

JMHO. Please. It was a joke ! Chris

David Sutton_6

Hi Frank..

I think Frank Zappa was 100% right, i dont think Gov should be regulating either, i think it should be up to us! is it a pipe dream? ya, i'd say so but think what kind of world it would be if and only if we all cared just alittle more.
as far as howard stern goes...I was in a resteraunt in manhatan and he was there, thats one rude person!Thank God my kids were not there.

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hr

David, you said

"i beat my thumb with a hammer and i yell #@$#, 40 years ago they beat there thunmb with a hammer and they probly said.... oh my! that hurt...."

I was around the construction trade 40 years ago and I don't remember that being the case at all

Viewer discretion is advised should be a good indicator of what one person decides to watch.

Personally I don't think a panel of hand selected folks, anywhere should decide what the other 300 million people in this country get to see and hear. Who exactly get's to sit on that panel? That's exactly what I think you mean when you said
"people left to their own will continue to slid (sp) down and down.

There is some middle ground to be found here. Let the majority decide. Isn't that the intent, and definition, of democracy?

hot rod

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Bob Sweet

Does anyone have

different way to access this site, I cant seem to bring it up from that web address? I'd really love to see it. Thanks

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Ron Schroeder

HotRod

" "i beat my thumb with a hammer and i yell #@$#, 40 years ago they beat there thunmb with a hammer and they probly said.... oh my! that hurt...."

I was around the construction trade 40 years ago and I don't remember that being the case at all "

about fortyfour years ago I went to work with my dad I was about eight and that was the first time I heard the F word. Never did I hear that word at home or in thr neighborhood. I remember telling my Mom what Dad said and boy did she light into him. It wasn't that it wasn't said just that it wasn't said around us kids. Today it is just another word in common vocabulary, time a changing for good or bad??

hr

I agree, Bruce

that there really isn't a good place for profanity. I would include racial and ethnic slurs in this category. That too seems to be more common place, unfortunatly.

My point, or question, is who gets to decide what is best for the population at large?

hot rod

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Ron Schroeder

HotRod

Guess what I was getting at was that crude behavior was controled in the home, if Mom and Dad didn't think it was right then you didn't see or hear it. Today we look to Big Brother to do that for us, that I do not feel is correct. The AFA has a good heart behind their cause however they along with ACLU fight things out on the opposite ends of the spectrum and all common sense goes out the window. So then we go down the road that if Janet filps a nip, then we aren't allowed to see a live birth on TV.

Steamhead (in transit)

Who would even be slightly qualified

to "decide what is best for the population at large"?

Certainly none of us.

See my earlier post for examples of people who thought they were so qualified. Do we really want to go down that road? We know where it ends.

There are just too many different people in America, with different standards, for any kind of draconian "one size fits all" method to work.

And besides, the minute you put a label on something such as "explicit lyrics" on a CD, or otherwise restrict access to it, everyone will want to get it. This is what happened when voluntary labeling was used in the 1980s. Why do you think the record companies accepted labeling so easily? It increased their sales!

Concern over what children have access to is valid. But parents have plenty of means for determining what their children see and hear- including not allowing TVs and computers in kids' rooms, using password protection (on some TV sets now too) and the "off" button. There is absolutely no reason for any kind of government censorship.

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hr

Lack of tolerance

is the bigger issue here. I feel this country has been deeply divided over the past 6 years. We have a lot of very complex problems faceing this nation today, few are simple black or white issues, we need to come back together and work as one, and find this middle ground.

Harsh language on a box in my home that has an on/off button, shouldn't be a big problem to address.

hot rod

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David Sutton_6

Ok maybe 50 yrs ;-)

I don't think a panel should decide either, it should be up to everyone, but it seems the exceptance of emorality is the normal..
viewer discretion... what about the commercels they seem to get racier by the day.. i'm not sitting on my high horse but it just seems to me that i spend a lot more time telling my boys to shut thir eyes while watching sponge bob during the commercels.

as far as my life, i was and more than likely still am part of the problem... but i want a differant life for my kids.
i know for me i stop drinking nov 24 1986 because i was a alchohlic so was my dad and mom and grand parents but by changing my life i stopped the cycle ( i hope and pray ) and maybe they wont go down the same roads i did. but it was a personal choice. ones we all have to make in order to make things change...

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Steamhead (in transit)

Zappa Crossfire Link

it's working again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F272-2A2FDo

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hr

teach your children well

then some day they grow old and wise enough to make their own decisions. Just as you did to quit drinking. I doubt some hash language or racy commercials will scar them for life.

I belive the message in the movie mentioed above is well worth tolerating some bad language. Quite a bit different than a rap song built around profanity just for the shock value:)

hot rod



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Larry (from OSHA)

Isn't history something

No matter what you think about this and where our society is going, it is good to look back every now and then to see what was said and what made sense then and now. I for one agree with Mr. Zappa.

Does anyone remember those bumper stickers from so long ago that said "Question Authority"?

Thanks Chris for sharing some thoughts.

Larry

Rollie Peck

--but reasoning

Grandma to grandson: "Johnny, where did you learn to use

such terrible language"?

Johnny: "While riding in the car with Grandpa".