Should I stick with Oil Heating for the 2006 winter next year?

ChasMan

Yes, oil burners have advanced, slightly. The car analogy is a bad one though. I dont see any computer controlled fuel injection systems measuring the temperature and SO/CO/O2 content in the flue and compensating every milisecond like I do on a cheap hyundai. A condensing / modulating Gas Boiler that vents with tiny plastic pipe out the side of a house is leagues beyond the finest oil burner available in terms of efficiency. Id go with Gas in a heartbeat if it was available. Who wants a noisy oil burner pumping away vs an almost inaudible gas flame?

gisella_2

Should I convert to gas ? And a couple other questions!

My old burner runs at 75% effeciency , an old standard
50 year old ugly as hell number. But She has never failed me However
does require to be flushed out during the heating season when oil sludges occasionally in the ducts to the tank. ive been told she is on her way out although i just this year replaced the inner chamber liner for 500.00 (the tiles were falling down.) Should I keep this unit in my house or convert to gas energy? What type of oil prices per gallon is everyone paying now and I am presently thinking of renting my house -- Do i include the price of oil in the rent asked and if so how do i predict how much
to charge for next year. I use about 750 gallons of oil per winter. Who is the best company to deal with if i replace the system and should I replace just now? Thanks to all your help in the past ! LAdy Gisella

Robert O'Brien

Why not put in a modern oil unit? The tenant should pay for their own fuel,when they move in they pay you for the oil in the tank,when they leave you buy back the remaining oil from them.Most landlords require tenants to have a service contract to ensure the system is maintained,this might present a problem with a 50 year old system

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lwal

Replace Your Oil burner???

They say "Oil Heats Best", but that's just what the "Oil Guy's " say. In my opinion, Oil is plagued with problems. You have to deal with the Nozzle, Filters, Sludge, Deliveries and a few other items which I won't get in to at this time. You say you may convert to Gas, Well, Do you have gas in the house? If you do, I would say, go ahead and convert. Gas required very little maintenence. You never will run out of Gas, there are no filters or nozzles and in my opinion are cheaper to install than a new Oil burner. Hope this is of some help to you!

ed wallace

converting

gas needs less maintenance??? its more like gas systems are not maintaned till they break down everything needs maintenance do not be fooled by the gas company pr bull

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Ron Schroeder

Converting

If you are happy with your oil company stick with oil, if unhappy with your oil company look around thats what competition is all about, go gas go no competition if your unhappy your stuck, I hope Lance doesn't want me to drag out the stories of days without heat because the gas company only works xx to xx a day you can wait. With gas you will be plaqued with non firing equipment do to the pilot that won't light the burner that doesn't stay lit because it doesn't sense the flame I too could go on. As of now no one has run out of gas but come cold weather pressures drop and you get less BTU delivered so all can have some gas, and other products (propane) are input into the system to keep it going and causes untold start and run problems do to change of composition until the weather breaks and back to normal until the next cold snap. And as the Gas company says Oil is a Dinosaur but guess what both fuels come out of the same Dinosaur hole. Go with what you are more comfortable with.

I haven't had an oil tank blow my house up yet either.

ed wallace

converting

had a customer no heat gas company said 3 working days before they could respond called me 1 hr later they had heat

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Jaymee

Don't listen to the negs about Gas

Oh Come On Ed! Are you kidding me? Don't listen to these people who have so many bad things to say about Gas! I have had hundreds of customers for both Gas and Oil call me and 1 hour later They Had Heat. What kind of fool do you take people for? When your heat does not work, you call for help. The Gas Company is not the ONLY service option for Gas heat! Any heating contractor and most plumbers fix Gas Heat!
To the person who wants an opinion on converting: Gas does have some and I say some maintenence required, but, compared to Oil...You gotta be kidding me. Oil requires much, much more work than Gas. Ed would have you believe that if your Gas burner breaks down you will have to wait three days for service, well that may be true if you live in the Ozark Mountains, but as I've mentioned, most heating contractors and Plumbers can have you up and running, but here is the beautifull thing about Gas Heat.
You will not break down as often as you do from oil heat, Plain and Simple!

If by some unfortunate accident, you run out of gas and suck up all the sludge in the bottom of your tank, you are going to need some work.

If water or condensation gets in your tank (it always does), you will need some work.

Tell me Ed, if someone runs out of oil in the middle of a noreaster, will you deliver oil to them, perhaps you will, but Guess What, Oil needs to be delivered , and Gas is piped directly in, so, since you don't "Run out of Gas" you don't need to be "Re-Started" for $99.95 plus parts a pop.

Oh and one last think about OIL......ARABS!

Here is a good idea ed, Just leanr Gas Heat and you won't have to defend the Oil Garbage anymore!

Ron Schroeder

http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzgilgoff4666670mar19,0,2373069.story?coll=ny-business-headlines

Ron Schroeder

The Gas Company is not the ONLY service option

""When your heat does not work, you call for help. The Gas Company is not the ONLY service option for Gas heat!""

http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzgilgoff4666670mar19,0,237069.story?coll=ny-business-headlines

Not the only option but you sigb a service contract and no one is available for three days so now you get to find a new service company at 2AM or on the weekend and now you pay for service again or wait it out in the cold.

We could go tit for tat all night but why not accept that both have there downfalls and quit cutting each others throat.

Steamhead (in transit)

And

in many areas, oil is cheaper per BTU than gas. If you decide to compare prices in your area, be sure to figure in all the taxes and fees that are NOT included in the advertised price per therm of gas.

Also, a modern flame-retention oil burner will NOT soot up a boiler or furnace when set up correctly- period. And with proper filtration your nozzle won't plug up. Ask me how I know these things.

Any heating equipment should be checked over by a competent pro each year. This applies to gas as well as oil.

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Joe Grosso

Hey Jaymee

You really like drinking the kool aid.Hey any heating equitment needs service period.I own a home heating oil company with 800 plus accounts.The amount of service I have is a joke.reason being all units serviced once per year and any problems are addressed and fixed period.If my customer does not do what I recomend to solve their problem I will tell them to find a new supplier period.All accounts on automatic delivery and had one run out this year from oct till now.If my customer does not like my bservice or fuel price 100 other companies out there that would be glad to take them as a customer so I have to be good.GAS no choice period.Always go for choice think about it my friend.As to the ARAB thing 11% of all the oil used in this country comes from the middle east.

Dan_29

I have a gas/steam system. I had no heat during a set of 4 and 8 degree days in December. I called the local gas company and had to wait two and a half days for service as they were overwhelmed with no heat calls. Most indy oil/gas service companies I called never called back. The one that did send a tech out did not solve the problem. Oil or gas is a matter of personal choice (there is no longer any cost advantage). The key is getting a service policy or you will be in in deep doo doo (the frozen kind) in a near zero degree day.

Dan

S Ebels

Aside from the rhetoric, here's the fact's..........

Fact 1. Your 50 year old boiler is a poor indicator of what's currently available in oil fired equipment today. Combustion technology has changed just a wee bit in the last 5 decades the same as the car you drive. Don't use your boiler as an indicator of current oil fired equipment.

Fact 2. If you use oil, you can shop for a supplier if you don't get good service from the one you have. Definitely not true with gas.

Fact 3. Any piece of fuel fired equipment must be checked each and every year. I don't care if it burns oil, natural gas, propane, wood or cow manure. There's a fire in there and you really want it to stay in there. That's about as simple as I can put it. What you are burning has no bearing at all on frequency of maintanence. If you have issues with your oil tank, it's not the fault of the oil, get the tank fixed.

Fact 4. A modern oil burner that is properly maintained (see fact 3) is just as reliable as a gas burner and in a standard design cast iron boiler, is likely to be more efficient than gas. Get practically any manufacturer's literature and compare the same boiler fired by gas and oil. You'll find that the oil will beat the gas version by 2-4% every time.

Fact 5. To determine which fuel is cheapest per BTU, you have to compare the costs for each one in your area because they vary widely throughout the US. Here in Michigan where I live I burn gas because it's cheaper per btu. HOWEVER! The boiler I have is capable of utilizing a gas OR oil burner and if gas ever became more expensive, I would switch to oil in a heartbeat. I wouldn't have any misgivings about burning oil at all.

Fact 6. Which fuel you decide to get will not have as big an impact on your satisfaction as will the skill and ability of your installer/technician. The best equipment available can turn into a nightmare in the hands of a hacker. Find a good installer and stick with him/her regardless of your fuel choice.

Fact 7. No one here can predict what fuel will be cheapest a month from now let alone 5 or 10 years down the road. The market is way too volatile and the supply demand lines are getting closer to each other every day. In 10 years we may all be burning wood or straw pellets for all anyone here knows. We are entering a time of unprecedented variation in fuel prices so flexibility in your heating equipment is a trait to be desired. Looking for a boiler that can burn either fuel by changing the burner may be a prudent and wise thing to do.

subcooler

Gas-Oil

Did you ever think that WOW oil can burn that good with-out all the extra control crap that is on the gas units. Dollar for Dollar oil will spank gas 24/7/365.

Ericjeeper

here I am thinking of going with Electric..

I just bought oil Monday for 2.559, something has to give.. electric is .09 an kwh.

jrc2905

Who can repair gas systems? Plumbers and gasfitters. Try to get one to come to your house on the weekend or any time. I do both gas and oil heat service and the gas customers who need a new gas system in the winter time are told the wait is in terms of weeks from the gas company.

Patchogue Phil_30

electric heat

Eric

Try heating your house with the equivalent BTU's from electric heat. Then mortgage your house to pay for just a few months worth of electric heat.

scrook_2

electric vs oil

at 0.09/kWhr that's like paying $3.14/gallon for oil burned at 85% efficiency -- 23% more -- for electricity.

You could look at natural gas prices in your area (and independant gas equipment servicers, as an alternate to the gas utility), though you may find it's more than oil, BTU for BTU.

Note: 1 kWhr = 3413 BTU, 1 gallon #2 oil = 140,000 BTU, and 1 Therm (~1 ccf or 100 cu ft) = 100,000 BTU.

Ericjeeper

standby losses?

I was confused I thought I had read where at 2.14 or so was the break point for fuel oil being more than electric.. well I will stay with what I have.it works fine.. would just like to save a few dollars.
I would go with a inside wood boiler if my insurance would allow me to have a solid fuel fired appliance in my garage.
Thanks for correcting my thoughts.sometimes I need it..

S Ebels

Gisella

Here's a program that will do a "face to face" comparison for different fuels. You simply input the current costs for different fuels in your area and then select the efficiency of the boiler you'll be using. The program will spit out the actual cost per 1,000,000 btu's vased on your own numbers.

Uni R

That's simple math...

In Ontario, the TSSA and the insurance companies are basically creating a situation where they are demanding customers get new oil tanks every 10 years. In my books that adds over 15 cents a gallon. Even if you can go longer, you still have to factor the depreciation costs to get a proper basis for comparison. Factors also need to get added for chimney costing and cleaning charges. The 85% efficiency factor for oil is under ideal conditions and I'm not too sure how close any oil systems get to this level over the course of a full heating system. I'm not advocating electricty over oil but when comparing costs per btu, the oil AFUE has to get reduced and some oil burning related service and depreciation charges have to be added if you want a meaningful comparison number.

John MacGregor_2

Oil replacement

Why not keep the old boiler and install a Geothermal unit as your primary heat and the oil as backup/secondary heat?
you can cut your bill by up to 70%, depending on your local utility costs, PLUS, a tax credit under the new energy code.

John MacGregor_2

Oil replacement

Why not keep the old boiler and install a Geothermal unit as your primary heat and the oil as backup/secondary heat?
you can cut your bill by up to 70%, depending on your local utility costs, PLUS, a tax credit under the new energy code.

PJO_5

If I May...

I am not a contractor, but have a good deal of experience with both gas and oil...and I am making the same choice this summer at a property we own.

In all the messages of this subject I haven't seen one person ask about the type of heating system this person has...IMHO that makes a difference to a degree.

For example, if she has all baseboard and it's really beat then maybe it should be replaced with enough lengths in each room to lower the design feed temp to 150F...then you look harder at condensing technology and the gas boilers. If it's radiators, maybe the same philosophy with a different tact...


If she just wants to replace the boiler and not touch the radiation, she should look seriously into a low volume oil-fired boiler like a Burnham LE-1 or Crown Freeport.

Another difference between oil and condensing gas units is the upfront costs - don't think anybody mentioned that yet. Maybe she only has enough for a basic replacement, and not for condensing technology.

Take Care, PJO

Jason_15

Out of gas

I distinctly remember some folks in Colorado running out of gas this winter!!! I'm glad I switched from gas BACK TO OIL !!!! With oil you can feel more secure in my opinion. If we can't get our tank filled with oil, that will be the least of our concern, because that would mean trucks would no longer be bringing FOOD to us! think about it....

S Ebels

While you're talking equipment life,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

How many here think a run of the mill gas condensing boiler will last more than 13-15 years? (That would be excluding the Vitodens but even it is susceptible to some things)

Now how many of us here would say that the life expectancy of a standard oil fired boiler would be at least double that.

S Ebels

Ericjeeper

Using the fuel cost comparison posted under "Gisella" you can find your answers very easily.

Oil @ $2.55 and 85% efficiency = $21.63 / million btu

Electric @ $.09/ KW and 99% efficiency = $27.53 / million btu

Ron Schroeder

Hi Scrook,

That's only true for electric resistance heat. An electric heat pump can be 2, 3 or more times better than resistance heat per KWh.

Ron

Ron Schroeder

Compare the costs per btu. Don't forget the improved efficiency of a heat pump over resistance heat.

If you are going to stay with a burnable fuel and if oil and gas are similar in cost per btu, go with oil. You can always replace an oil burner with a gas power burner but you can't go the other way.

Also. there is more of a chance in the forseeable future to replace oil with biofuels but less of a chance of natural gas being replaced with an alternate fuel.

DO NOT include heat in with the rent. The cost is too variable and the renter will probably turn up the thermostat and open the windows.

Dave Ewald

Is it worth replacing?

Say it saves you 10% of your oil bill, how long would it take to recover the cost of the new system at current prices? Can you insulate the house to achieve the oil savings for less up front expense? How long do you expect to keep the house? Do not include the heat with the rent: it encourages wasteful habits. Some prospective tenants will not even notice that you have a new, more efficient system, and recovering that cost with an above-market rent may not be easy. Requiring the tenant to get a service agreement is a good idea.