Replace Gravity Furnace?

Bob W._3

These are good points. Almost all home loans are sold on the secondary market. I doubt if a buyer could get a purchase money loan with a gravity furnace in place. Check with some mortgage lenders. In any event, a gravity hot air furnace is probably the most inefficient going, albeit simple. It will run without power, but you can do that with a gas fireplace or space heater if that is a concern.

John Bonetti

Replace Gravity Furnace?

We live in Metro Detroit and have a coal conversion Mueller Climatrol Gravity Furnace. We have an opportunity through our county to replace our furnace with a deferred loan (due mostly upon selling our home). At first we thought it was a great idea, now we have these questions:
1) Do we want to lost the quiet, less dry gravity heat and a furnace that has no moving parts and very little that can go wrong (I can replace most parts on it myself if need be..)
2) It will cost us (eventually) over $6000 since all the old asbestos lined ducting and the huge furnace has to be removed - a long payback time
3) We feel our arguments for doing it are lower heat bills, losing the "octopus arms" in the basement, the ability to add a/c eventually and add on to the existing house.

ANY FEEDBACK/Advice/Personal experience is appreciated -

confused in Michigan

Dale

Deferred loan

If that deferred loan is only when you sell the house no matter how long you stay there and if the asbestos removal is done as part of the replacement and part of the loan then go for it. Trying to sell a place without the known asbestos removed means alot less money anyway. The current fuel use per degree day will let you do the current payback but I would expect about 40% less gas used at least, with a 90plus condensing furnace. It will be more noisy and the air coming out won't be as hot.

Albert Huntermark

There is no doubt that you should upgrade your heating system if you are able to. I agree with Dale, especially if the asbestos removal is included. I would look closely at the terms of the loan deferral though. Is the principal ($6000) deferred with or without interest until you would sell your home? What is the rate of interest? Since the program is sponsored by your county government it may be very low anyway. Consider what your actual payback will be on the loan after compunding if you sell in say 5-years or whenever. Perhaps you may want to consider alternative financing. Another thing to consider is that if you do decide to sell, not only because of having known asbestos in the system, but because of the fact that it is a gravity warm air system, the new buyers may not be able to get a mortgage. In my area anyway, it is very hard to get a mortgage to buy a home that has a gravity warm air system. I haven't seen or replaced a gravity warm air system in about 25-years (pre asbestos removal regulation days), most are gone, however, back in those days, my customers were always thrilled at the fuel savings, even with the slight addition of electric consumption for a circulator (I always replaced with hydronic systems). Also consider that prices for fuel as well as for installation have gone up considerably since then and will continue do so. If it were me, I would definately formulate and implement a plan to get that system replaced before they are too high.

Christian Egli_2

Fresh thoughts on vintage heat

Here go my romantic notions about home heating.

For a few years, I lived in a home heated with a gravity air furnace. The "Tom and Jerry" style floor grilles were an instant fascination. I have warm memories of the thing that lurked in the basement.

Advantages of gravity air:

1) Gives off all the luxurious sounds and smells of cozy warmth. It's a cat purring and the wood stove fragrances. Add a cup of hot chocolate and a snowed in picture frame window, and you're in heaven.

2) When recovering from very deep set backs during unoccupied times, it will not create arctic blasts of cold air like forced air furnaces do. The gravity furnace does not deliver half way heated air, so you can always bake yourself over one of the heat holes even if the furnace just kicked in.

Disadvantages:

1) Well, the super deep set back is one way to make it more efficient.

2) When your thermostat ends the fairy tale, you're left with the cat's dander and the stove's ashes. I remember my system as overwhelmingly dusty, partly because the gravity air flow leaks into all walls and the basement too, and partly because you can't really use an air filter without restricting too much flow.

A forced air central furnace would call for air filtration, but why create an air problem when there are better ways...

Why not install a boiler with baseboard heating, it's very simple and not too disruptive to your home. For air conditioning, instead of window units, go with split unit systems that call for no ducting.

And for the ultimate in all the luxurious trappings of cozy heat, there's only steam.

For immediate resale purposes only, upgrading the home is a definite helper. If you don't plan on selling the home ever, then don't worry about the opinion of a real estate agent and focus only on payback time.

A deferred loan eats away at your equity, you notice it only when you (or your heirs) want to cash in (or not) on the sales price of your home. The reality might be hideous. Check the interest rates carefully, be worried about predatory lending, verify the county matching funds if it is all true. Maybe, for a reality check, go to a credit union to get a proposal about a home improvement loan and see how their figures stack up against what you are being promised, they should also know if this program is what it really is.

Your octopus is spreading its tentacles.

John Bonetti

thanks all..

I sure appreciate all of the posts. FYI, the loan is for a new roof which we desperately needed (we've been in the house 18 years and it wasn't new then!), removal of the furnace and the ducting (including the asbestos) and installation of the new furnace, humidifier and ducting. The total quote is about $11000 with 40% deferred without interest until the home sells and the balance to be paid over 30 years at 3% fixed. As of this week at least, we are planning on at least 5 more years in the home, possibly 10 or more. We are in an area where housing values have skyrocketed - monster homes are being build all around us. A 50x150 lot on our block just sold for over $200k (there is a house there that the developer is going to demolish). In other words, we won't have to worry about owing more than the loan balance when we sell.

Your answers helped us decide to do it - but I'm sure going to miss the old metal behemoth. The first time I have to call for repairs (something I've NEVER had to) I'm going to doubt myself all over again! I do believe it is the right choice - for all of the reasons you've listed and more.

Thanks again all --

I'll continue to check the posts if anyone else has an opinion.

John Mills_5

I disagree

on one statement about less dry.

The humidity in the home is based on how much infiltration you have. Outside air leaking in and being heated thus having a lower relative humidity.

So really, a forced air furnace doesn't dry the home. There is no condensation coming off the heat exchanger from taking humidity from your home. Only way forced air could be worse is leaking ducts outside the heated space such as in an attic increasing infiltration of outside air.

BUT, that old gas hog of yours is causing a huge amount of infiltration in the combustion air it needs to burn the gas and the dillution air sucked up the chimney 24 hours a day. Going to 80% will lower the combustion air needs and eliminate dillution air loss. 90+ sealed or even 80% sealed eliminates any infiltration caused by the combustion process. Doing this will increase the humidity level in the home.