BTU Meter

jerry scharf_3

Constantin,

I have been on a slow search to find a ultrasonic flow meter I could afford. If you could track down the brochures, I would love to hear about them and see if they have something

I could use. The temperature sensor part is way cheap, the flow part way expensive/hard. Everything I read says that ultrasonics have the widest measurement range and least problems.

thanks,
jerry

Adam_5

BTU Meters

I have a four unit apartment building and would like to install two BTU meters on one of the new (to be installed) CGA4 biolers (hot water) to meter radiator usage in the basement when I install they down the road so we have some heat for the pool table space. If I can meter the usage for the one boiler I can compensate the tenant for gas usage. Any experience with BTU meters?

Al Letellier

BTU meters

Have never had any success finding what you are looking for, but to measure heat usage, a simple hour timer hooked up to the circulator can give you an idea of the amount of heat used. Just do a percentage based on the run time of all the circulators. Takes a little math but is simple enough and the least costly way we've found to track heat usage in different zones.

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Steve Paul

metering BTU's


The usual rounded off number for BTU's in a cubic foot of nateral gas in most areas of low pressure delivery is about 1,000/cubic foot. Why couldn't you install a gas meter at the boiler to moniter the cubic feet used and multiply by 1,000 to determine the BTU's consumed?

Boiler Guy

In addition

you could install a timer directly connected to the gas valve circuit(s) to determine actual run time. I did this on a hi/lo fire steam boiler operation which enabled me to convince the owner the benefits of reduced equipment capacities.

Floyd_9

Here you go....

http://www.istec-corp.com/productstop.html

Not inexpensive, but I think it's what you are looking for...

Floyd

Steve Garson

While a timer on the circulator will give you a rough idea, what it doesn't acccount for is the temperature delta when the water comes back to the boiler, which is needed to meaure the BTU usage. While I'm not sure, I would think that if you have a thermometer to measure the input and output of the heating loop, knowing the GPM flow of the circulator, then you should be able to caculate the relative BTU usage, provided you do the same for the rest of the heating system.

Gordy

Adam

> I have a four unit apartment building and would

> like to install two BTU meters on one of the new

> (to be installed) CGA4 biolers (hot water) to

> meter radiator usage in the basement when I

> install they down the road so we have some heat

> for the pool table space. If I can meter the

> usage for the one boiler I can compensate the

> tenant for gas usage. Any experience with BTU

> meters?

Gordy

Adam

If the pool table room is going to be the basement of the apartment building. Will it not benifit the tenants heat usage on the main floor by heating the basement space?

With out knowing size of the basement space I'm stabbing here. But I would think it would be minimal impact on the upstairs apartment. Knock a 20 spot off the rent. call it even. I have a similar situation. If your curious I would go with the timer on the circulator. Ball park at best.

Gordy

rb_8

BTU Meters

These are some sub stations we built a few years back - the one on the left uses a mag meter and the one on the right an impeller meter both measure flow and are connected to a calculating device which takes in delta t.

If you're looking for low cost alternative...put standard flow meters (rated for hot water) to both sub systems and divide up the utility bill in proportion to the accumulated flow to each.

clammy

watt meter

I had the pleasure of seeing these in germany but have no leads as to where to get but i did see them everywhere as in friends apartments and in one or two boiler rooms on the supply and on the pdv bypass .They where wlded onto the rdas and from what i was told a meter guy would come read them and if your watt meter was over there estimated usage you paid the difference .They had them mounted to the pumps outlet the pdv bypass and the reurn to the boiler from this they where able to tell how much heat was being pumped out by subtracting bypass and return reading they would count up all the numbers from the rads and knew exactly what was piping and fitting lose compared to heat usage i was quite amazed .Since there piping insulation codes are very stick like 1 in pipe 1 wall thickness and so on .While there i had the pleasure of hanging with some heating tech and saw some of there excelent work they explained this watt reading system and by the way this boiler romm was 2 buderus units gas guns around 3 to 4 million btus and i had to where a jacket there was no heat lose on the piping the flue pipes where even insulkated very awesome stuff .How long before the prices of fuel rise enough before we start really doing work as they do i guess the price isn,t high enough yet peace clammy

Boiler Guy

Clammy

Haen't seen you post in a while. What ya been up to?

clammy

Thanks for the concern

I was let go from work on good friday so i took a little vacation and now i,m starting things back up i have 2 job offers 1 would entail leaving the field which i do truely love to work in,and do building maintance for a trading firm working and servicing there ups system and triple redunt cooling systems in there world wide computer center but i think the non challenging atsphere might make me commit suicide or another offer to work strickley on large commerical and industral systems in system replacement and control up dating to dc commucator systems but as everything the money has to be right .While i have another group who say to go out on my own but around her the hardest part on the job is trying to get them from the low bidders and not having to do the low bid work over .So i have a lot of hard choices to make besides a bunch of imgration promblems to deal with with my better half which has really adds alot of stress when our shared future is on the line it's kinda like having a really big weight on your head that you personally have no control over and being a wet head and wanting to fix everything thats wrong mechincally when it's out of your hands really makes it tough on you mentally .I'll be performing some small replacement stuff this summer including a 2 munchkins 1 in my own home and one which raditor panels trv and mini tube supply .Thanks for the corcern and as always peace and good luck clammy

Boiler Guy

Happy to hear

you got some options. You know what they always say (still haven't figured out who "they" is yet); " it is always easier to find a job, when you already have a job". I am sure you will land solidly on your feet real soon. Sorry to hear of the personal stress. Best of luck.

I thought I was going to be looking for a new place to land now that I am almost ready to go back. Company has been sold. Confirmed last week "I" am somewhat contingent in forward progress so that IS a good thing. Could present some new and interesting opportunities.

Constantin

The EU has some solutions as well...

... Tom Butcher was showing two brochures yesterday that he collected at ISH. Allocating cost among several renters has been an ongoing campaign in the EU, ever since the days that they used (very inaccurate) evaporating wax containers mounted to each radiator in a multi-unit home with a single heating plant.

The two he had brochures from measured flow and delta T. One was based on ultrasound to measure flow, the other used a conventional paddle-wheel. Either approach should work in a home heating environment. Unfortunately, I don't have Tom's e-mail handy, otherwise, I would send it to you so he can mention the companies' names and you can find them via the net.

I guess it does pay to wander off the Wall, particularly if the place you wander to is ISH Frankfurt.

rb_8

Try these links

Danfoss

Kamstrup