Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Burnham, VERY VERY POOR WARRANTY !!!
Options
I coordinated this jobsite visit to NJ with a Training Seminar that I did in Mine Hill, NJ, a NAOHSM Chapter meeting and other things. The choice to be there with the representative and contractor was my choice and my choice alone. I probably would have done the same if this were your job.
Glenn Stanton
Manager of Training
Burnham Hydronics
www.burnham.com
Glenn Stanton
Manager of Training
Burnham Hydronics
www.burnham.com
0
Comments
-
Burnham, VERY VERY POOR CUST SERVICE !!!
This is a follow up post.
I had the Gas-Fired Boiler (204NCL-TE12) installed 1/7/05 and the aquastat NEVER worked. Plumber went thru (5) factory sealed aquastats and could not get boiler to reach temps > 180deg. Plumber installed a strap on Honeywell aquastat 40+ inches from boiler and left. I asked Burnham to investigate and they wrote a letter to me saying "its ok, warranty not affected". This is the basis for my stated opinion above. I threatened litigation and Burnham sent plumber back to move the strap on aquastat and "figure a way to mount it in boiler cabinet". Well the plumber did just that. The boiler reaches temps > 180deg, as it did with strap-on, but I am not happy.
Is this an accepted practice in plumbing industry; to jury rig a brand new unit until it appears to work? Why can't Burnham fix the high-limit switch in this problem aquastat or at least be professional and admit they do not have a reliable product ??
I know Burnham reads this forum and trust they will understand the basis for my concern. I have no issues with plumber and believe he is doing what the weak Cust. Svc. Dept at Burnham directs. Why won't Burnham come and inspect my setup?? I am about 2.5hours from their Lancaster plant!
0 -
burnham warrenty
seems to me that the aquastat is made by another company the pumber should have talked to his supplier and they should have talked to the manufacterer of the aquastat0 -
Aquastat
Ed you beat me to it. Tom it sounds like the person who installed your unit has the customer service problem. EJW0 -
Speaking from my own experiences
Burnham is top-notch where customer service is concerned. Sounds like there's an issue with others in my opinion.
Five aquastats? Man, if I were the installer, I'd have found out what the heck was wrong with that picture. One or two defective units along the way & I'd be yanking chains. That cost your installer a tone of buckage. If (s)he stuck with the issue all along and found the fix, you owe them a big thanks.
But, those are the chances we take as hydronic comfort advisors and installers. That's why it's important to listen to your installer and go with whichever product line (s)he is willing to stand behind. Chances are, the manufacturer has given them better-than-average support at some point in time when things didn't go just right. That's what separates the playas from the real deal.
Teamwork!
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Burnham poor customer service
Appreciate all thought/opinions.
Original aquastat and all subsequent ones were Honeywell. Others on this group have input the "high limit" spring inside these aquastats somehow disengages thus rendering the high-limit functionality in-operable. I emphatically advised plumber of this and was told "we are not electricians and don't troubleshoot aquastats". The final configuration: the strap-on Honeywell aquastat was moved into the cabinet. It was at least 1 inch too tall, so instead of securly mounting it to well fitting, he sheet metal screwed it into cabinet. Without that screw, it would hang on the copper tube connected to finger. This is yet another jury rig, but the aquastat is now at least taking temp. of well and not the output pipe 42" away from well. I was told this is what Burnham advised.
Had Burnham not sent me the "the jury rig is ok" letter, then my issue would remain with Plumber. With this letter in mind, I don't feel I can point finger at plumber.
Whom should I believe? As it stands I don't owe Burnham a dime, but have an open balance of 1/3 cost with plumber. Several close friends are lawyers and they might be the only option. Any thoughts ????
Appreciate any plumbing guidance. Tom.0 -
aquastat
FIVE aquastats and a 33 % installation balance for over three months ??? something very wrong with picture.i have installed about about a half million burnham boilers and never heard of anything even mildly related to this problem. i believe you need a more experienced technician. the guy you got seems like an eccentric millionaire. even if burnham can't figure it out ,which i doubt very much ,the plumber sure as hell should be able to. i know i would or the damn boiler would be ripped out and on the street very quickly.0 -
i have installed hundreds of *Boilers in my life..
for about 8 years i dont install a single one.my reasons are my own. However,poor customer service wasnt the reason. last time i installed one it was an LE. and the last four i made go were small nat gas boilers. no problems. my understanding of controls suggests to me that 5 of anything Could be Bad however they would have had to have the same run dates and lines...so,buy a seperate control from another outfit should it also bite the big one i would respectfully suggest that the installation aint all it appears to be and has sweet zilch to do with the controler. if a boiler wont reach 180 then turn off the circulator and wire around the control when it gets up to 170 turn it off if the gauge doesnt go up another ten degrees the gauge is shot.Oh.... They backed the warranty on the boilers that caused my buddy alot of grief..
* Burnham0 -
Burnham woes
Again I appreciate all ideas.
Plumber replaced gauge once and used a handheld temp. device to confirm gauge. He also replaced the well. With this said, I am strongly suspicious of high-limit switch in aquastat and base this on all debug completed to date as well as several others on "the wall" that have discovered similar.
I did note the plumber does NOT put greasy stuff on finger prior to inserting into well. I questioned this every time and was given reasons such as "messy, not reliable, does not really matter etc...."
I am at a loss as to why the plumber and Burnham cannot get me a unit that is built to factory specs. and works in the configuration used to define the operational characteristics.
Tom.0 -
Plumbers
It is nice to hire a plumber to do a boiler job because many times they are the least expensive. The problem with the "typical" plumber is they are not troubleshooters. If you hired a true heating professional they would have probably fixed your situation on the first try.
Burnham is an excellent company and has always stood behind the boilers I have installed. I have had very few problems with them over the years and believe their customer service to be among the best in the industry.0 -
Tom
When you posted last time, I made it a point to find out who your installer was that day and contacted him regarding this problem. I am the one who asked him to move it into the vestbule and onto the well where it should be installed. This should have taken care of the problem. yes the casing of the aquastat is longer than the original but it will fit in the vestbule mounted on the well without sheet metal screws. As you very well know, we do not manufacture the high limit control...Honeywell does. We do however, have to deal with the probability of controls being miscalibrated from time to time because it is included as part of the boiler and as you have indicated, that has been dealt with numerous times already. I will contact the representative for your area that you have already been involved with to find out what is going on here. You should hear from either him or your installer today so we can all put this thing to rest.
Glenn Stanton
Manager of Training
Burnham Hydronics
www.burnham.com0 -
i would suggest
the plumber put the heat grease in the well and on the sensor as the instructions state and try again before going off on either honeywell or burnham..one must follow the directions before one says it dont work..my 2 centsgwgillplumbingandheating.com
Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.0 -
I'm a licensed plumber
who happens to make light work of troubleshooting boilers.
99% of all the boilers I install are Burnham products.
Their customer service is without peers in this industry.
It sounds like you trust your plumber and that's a good thing, but no self-respecting heating professional replaces a single part 5 times without a satisfactory result.
It's wrong on so many levels.
I think your frustration could be misdirected.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
> the plumber put the heat grease in the well and
> on the sensor as the instructions state and try
> again before going off on either honeywell or
> burnham..one must follow the directions before
> one says it dont work..my 2 cents
0 -
Couldn't agree with gerry more! There is a reason for that paste. That said is this thing even wired up correctly? Does this plumber even understand how a triple acting aquastat works? 5 "bad" aquastats in a row sounds like an install problem to me. Your plumber already stated that he wasn't an electrician, I think you need someone to come out that understands how controls on a hydronic system work. I'm not trying to put plumbers down at all, but everyone has there skill set for the jobs they perform. For me my strongest skills are piping and combustion, I could do better myself on the control side. In my opinion this is not burnhams or honeywells fault.0 -
Burnham poor customer service
I wrote to Burnham Customer Service and requested a visit by them to inspect my setup. They ignored my request. I called and confirmed they recieved the request and was told to call the plumber who did install.
I don't expect any vendor to "run right over" when a customer complains, but when the plumber has failed, someone has to take responsibility.
A bit about the plumber; the license holder works in the office; his employees have done all the work in my home.
Why did I choose this plumber? My 45 yo boiler (Repco) filled up with soot after some animal made a nest in the exhaust stack. The soot clogged the output and flames could not rise, so they came out every orifice of boiler. Between carbon monoxide detector blasting, kids crying, wife a wreck et... oh and it was around 6 deg outside. My options were very limited.0 -
easy solutiopn
it might be interesting to hear the plumbers side of this story. sounds like either he is incompetent or customer and lawyer friend don't want to pay. hire a plumber to complete installation and backcharge initial contractor. you are working with his money. plumber might be getting screwed but your problem goes away.0 -
Burnham
The image of a company is a reflection of it's people. I have always admired how Glenn handled all of Burnham's situations posted here, and it is disappointing to see them, and him, get blamed for something that clearly was not their fault.
Coming from a competitor, that should mean something.
Keep up the good work, Glenn!
GW0 -
Tom
I have already spoken to your area representative and he has already called your contractor. Apparently Mike is out of town until Monday. As I understand at this point, the high limit control is now working but that it is not clamped to the well as it should be. The original control was an L4080 "OEM" aquastat which has a casing that is approximately 2" by 3" in dimension. Because of your difficuly in achieving the desired temperatures with that device your contractor installed a Honeywell "Tradeline" control (L6006) but installed it in Strapon Fashion to the supply pipe. I contacted him to move that back into the boiler vestibule in the well and he did. Yes the casing is bigger but it does fit in the vestibule and it may have been that that casing may not have been equipped with the necessary clamp and screw assembly to secure it to the well and that is why his man screwed it to the jacket. The L4006 and L6006 controls have proven to be somewhat more accurate in comparison to the L4080 controls as is apparent by it now working. We just need to get you one that will clamp onto the well as desired. I will see to it that this happens and you will be contacted by our representative and contractor on Monday when Mike returns. Thanks for your patience but you do have to understand that we are all responding and that we do not necessarily have complete control over Honeywell's quality control. That is why in situations like yours we sometimes advise to replace the existing control with the L4006A or L6006A control if necessary. Hope this helps.
Glenn Stanton
Manager of Training
Burnham Hydronics
www.burnham.com0 -
Me thinks
there is MUCH MORE to this story than meets the eye! JMHO
Burnham and their reps have always done right by me!!!0 -
burnham
i can call burnham and get excellent help over the phone unlike wiel mclain as to control from honeywell can you say poor quality control at times0 -
I'll stand behind Glenn
I have called Glenn and instantly recieved answer's to issues. I personally have never asked to have a rep come to a site because I, with their help have been able to resolve any issues I have had. And honestly have had few issue's with one of their unit's. As far as your problem, I think Glenn has already made arrangement's to address your problem...That's customer service in my opinion!! Oh and I may be wrong but I do not believe he is responsible for monitoring this site for issue's so he has gone above and beyond what is required or requested of him..I for one find that to be a quality not seen from many!!!0 -
It is often easy to pass the buck to the manufacturers
Alot of "contractors" do it. FIVE AQUASTATS! No no, dude something else is wrong, and I doubt it is Burnham' doing. Why not have the plumber bring the problem here, we'll help you guys get to the bottom of it. Burnham is a top notch company and stands by their boilers. Glenn Stanton does the same. Have you called the local Burnham rep - they would come out with the plumber. WE put in a lot of Burnhams and have very very few problems. Yours is either a wiring problem or just a poor installation. How's about some pictures and get the plumber here. We'll be fair. Mad Dog
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
'nother question????????????????????????????/
Has the "boss" been out to see the problem yet? Mad Dog
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
We do a good deal of consulting work and troubleshooting
of bad installations. Your story is a familiar one: Installation wrong from day one. Contractor comes back a few times just to "shut you up" but problem is never really diagnosed correctly and fixed. Bottom line, as a contractor, we are the ones who must see these problems through till the end. We rely on the manufacturer to tell us of any commoin problems and suggestions to fix. Hey....Glenn is here dealing with the problem....you need to get the contrcator here. We are here to help - really! Mad Dog
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
help
maybe at the end of the day the plumber will even possibly get paid. looks like to date he ain't doing too good.0 -
Yeah, no kidding, Guy.
Ditto from us.
Noel0 -
I'll admit it
I did an install of a Burnham boiler. The install went extremely well.
Slightly less than a year later, i received a call that the boiler wasn't working correctly. I went out and looked at it and guessed the aquastat wasn't working right. The wholesaler told me it was, point blank. He also told me to 'grease' the well with anti-seize compound to make sure there was good conductivity.
After a couple more calls from the homeowner, I replaced the thermostat after I witnessed the boiler short-cycling. BINGO! I haven't had a call from them since.
As it's been said here many times before, you have to look at the big picture. I didn't that time, but I will in the furure.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Burnham woes
Again, appreciate all the info. Couple of things need pointing out. 1) Burnham has been involved, very early on. Actually involved to the extent they approved of the strap-on early on. I sent a pic of the setup and that was accepted by a Burnham factory rep and sent on Burnham letterhead. I subsequently spoke with Burnham and emailed several times, all to Customer Service Manager. Additionally I requested, in writing, for Burnham rep to visit. I got no response. I suggested litigation and was told "if thats the route you choose we are done talking." As such, my only interface to Burnham is thru the plumber. If he tells me "Burnham says ..." how can I challenge. Its not about me believing the plumber, its about Burnham not getting involved in my eyes.
2) I appreciate the thought of a bad thermostat, but that is not in the equation. First, it is blinking "give me heat" and the boiler is not going above 180deg. Second, when the replacement aquastat (one that worked), the boiler reached temp.
I have no bones with anyone. My entire interest is to get a boiler that meets efficiency specs and otherwise operates as designed. If this was an AC unit, I would have been given an SEER rating. That SEER is derived from a specific configuration. Any deviation would compromise that SEER rating. I don't know how boilers are spec'd but using this analogy I cannot believe the unit will operate per the design specs when a strap-on aquastat is 40+ inches from the well.
I would be happy to take pic and post, but don't know what to show.
8
At this point, I await word from Glenn or someone to take this to next step.0 -
I think
I believe Glenn has addressed this in previous responses. I also saw his indication of having this issue addressed with you and your local rep and installer, also noticed that you didn't bother to respond to him... As to the pic's, take them of the entire boiler and post them. Let's have a look at the entire install. Piping, wiring, boiler...all of it...shouldn't be to hard..0 -
Burnham woes
I have not had much experience with Burnham, but what I have had was positive. [I've been in business here over 40 yrs, they are new to the area]
If someone calls me and tells me they are going to talk to their lawyer, we are done talking!! They can call my lawyer. I don't like threats and that damned near got me court-martialed, but it got the antagonist transferred to the infantry instead. Hooray for military Justice.
0 -
Burnham woes - FINAL RESOLUTION !
My confidence in Burnham, and plumber, have been restored. Burnham reps, including Glen (a frequent reader of this forum) visited today with the plumber and they did a super job in getting my heater working properly and restoring my confidence. Turns out the aquastat was questionable and they resolved problem by installing a very good quality model. We tested with digital temp gauge and confirmed all is well. Glen turns out to be a walking textbook and could not have been more professional. His commitment to customer satisfaction was well evidenced and that alone made me much more comfortable with my heater integrity.
My appreciate also extends to this forum. It seems this was the pivotal action that got my problem resolved.
This issue is now considered closed.
Tom.0 -
\"Walking Textbook\"
Good way to describe! Glad all is resolved to your satisfaction. Followups are always nice to see.0 -
You're right about Glen!
The fellows at Burnham always stand behind their products. Good to hear you're a 'happy camper' again.
Mike0 -
Just noticed
It is interesting that Burnham did a very good job of taking care of it's customer, yet the first thing we see is the subject line of the thread reading "VERY VERY POOR WARRANTY".
Why is it that we as consumers (yes, I am sure I have been guilty of the same thing) become irate, and rude before we know what the problem is, and/or give the product seller/manufacturer a hard time even when they try to help. I am not trying to put Tom down, it is just an observation and I am sure we have all done the same thing at least once.
Human Nature sure is interesting.......
Cosmo Valavanis
Dependable P.H.C. Inc.0 -
Not only
Not only is Glenn a walking textbook he's fun to pick on too!!
0 -
FINAL PAYMENT
Now that the issue is closed and your job is 100 % is the plumber paid in full, semi paid or stiffed ?? THIRTY PERCENT IS A FORMIDABLE SUM.0 -
Thanks Tom
Breakdowns in communication are often a difficult thing to overcome. Sometimes venting frustrations on sites such as this may be a better way of making things happen. I'm glad that I was here to see your original post and that we were able to finally get together today to get it resolved. Thanks for your patience in this matter. I enjoyed meeting you today and I hope that your confidence in your heating company has been restored as well. Thanks again for the followup post on this matter. That means a lot to us all!
Glenn Stanton
Manager of Training
Burnham Hydronics
www.burnham.com0 -
Glad to hear it worked out Tom
I told you Glenn stands by his company. Mad Dog
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
final payment NOT
sounds like it cost the plumber 33 % to finish te job.0 -
The $600 aquastat
So how about that?? How far do you think this Stanton guy had to drive to fix an $80 stat and shut down the slander mill? 200 miles, 300 miles, more?
What a waste of company money! I wonder if this means a new pricebook is on it's way.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 85.7K THE MAIN WALL
- 3K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 49 Biomass
- 418 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 72 Chimneys & Flues
- 1.9K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.2K Gas Heating
- 92 Geothermal
- 149 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.2K Oil Heating
- 59 Pipe Deterioration
- 847 Plumbing
- 5.8K Radiant Heating
- 371 Solar
- 14.5K Strictly Steam
- 3.2K Thermostats and Controls
- 50 Water Quality
- 39 Industry Classes
- 47 Job Opportunities
- 15 Recall Announcements