Educational Apathy (ME)

Weezbo

and a relentless focus on getting the word to fall on a fertile mind:)

[Deleted User]

Is it just me..

or is anyone else experiencing a "student shortage".

I had 1 student sign up for the Advanced Controls Course at RRCC this semester.

Guess I'll find something else to do with my time on THursday nights:-)

Like finish a book or two...

Yatesey, Waco, anyone....

ME

Dan Foley

Apathy

Mark,

Our local ACCA chapter had to cancel a Jim Davis CO class due to lack of interest. As if we needed more incentive, there have been multiple CO deaths in the region (Ocean City, Roanoke) in the last several months. -DF

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DanHolohan

Same here.

Guess we taught 'em all! ;-)

Guy_6

Techs

I was asked by Kevin Beckett the other day what I thought the biggest problem facing our industry was. Without hesitation I told him that there is a shortage of people entering who really want to become educated. We do have the sons and daughters following in the family footsteps, who generally want to build the business and promote quality, but we also have a fairly large percentage of people who simply want to work but not put a lot of thought toward it. That doesn't fly in our industry,especially now with equipment becoming more sophisticated, therefore we are faced with a division in the labor pool.
Every day I meet some of the most intelligent and creative people in boiler rooms, to be followed by people whom I wonder how they even found the building.
You are right in that education is the answer, so don't give up; The challenge is making them WANT the education, and not just the free lunch that usually accompanies it.
Next week I will be training 15 or so service people from a local company, and I know that the division will be 5/5/5- 5 who will really want to learn, and will hit me with some good questions, 5 who will be polite and take it in, and 5 who will eat a donut. My goal is to push as much of the middle as possible towards the top.
I hope that I haven't offended anybody, nor do I want to spark any debate. I really just want to educate them in order to make MY job easier ;-)

Mark Hunt

Yup


I don't teach classes, but just try to get someone to read a book about what they do. HA! HA! HA!

I know where there are three of Dan's books sitting in MINT condition having NEVER been read. How do I know they've never been read? DO NOT GET ME STARTED!

Mark H

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Mitch_4

but if they learn

youtake away the excuse of " but I didn't know!!"

I attended a seminar from a manufacturer,and the tech guy really knew his stuff. The young buck that "know it all" played 'stump the expert'

he made them look like fools in a fun way that showed them..you dont know it all..not by 1/2 and really made them think..maybe they should attend more courses.

too sad really that new lads dont think they need it,or learned it all.
Mitch

Plumdog_2

well,

The catalogue lists the course as requiring "permission from the instructor". Last year I asked Mark E. about getting permission, and he refered me to John Breece; as it would be his call. John Breece said I must have permission from Instructor. So I began painting the house instead. Maybe someday.

Wayco Wayne_2

Actually

I just had our teachers meeting and we have more students than ever. In a 4 year journeymans curiculum through ACCA, we have 3 first year classes, Two, 2nd and 3rd year classes, and one 4th year class. My class, the 4th year, taking boilers and hydronics for one semester, number 30 young peoples. I wish they had split that in 2 personally. 30 is lot of divergent interests. I'd better bring my chair and whip. Yikes. My biggest gripe is they installed a punch clock so teachers can't slip out a few minutes early on a 3 hr class. Not that I ever would stoop to such behavior. (damn!)

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Jed_2

I've

heard it said by Teachers: If I can reach just one student, and have an impact, then I consider that a success (paraphrasing obviously). Maybe you attracted the "one", Mark. One down, how many to go?

Jed

Unknown

Mark It has been slow for me since

April. I was not sure if it was due to economics or the cost of gasoline.

Just this week however everyone has been calling and all my classes for September & October are filling up. We are also getting sign ups for our year long evening classes (one night a week) on Thursdays. Our recent graduating class all passed their liscensing exam and all have found jobs.

Maybe everyone took the summer off and they are just realizing that winter is coming and they need to get some training.

I have been finding a lot of very enthusiastic young techs in the last couple of years and they are a joy to teach. They ask a lot of questions and really get into the subject at hand. I do not seem to get many that do not want to learn.

Marty

So what happens to the poor person who wanted to take the class ?????????? And here is a question I have not true schools but the one day training deals, Why do the A/C things get done mostly in the summer and the heat things get done mostly in the winter ?

Wayco Wayne_2

I wanted to add

a gripe while I'm at it. I mentioned the time clock kiddingly since it is a new part of my teaching requirements, but it actually is a burr under my saddle. The State of MD does not have curriculum requirements for the journeymans license. It does however have time requirements on classroom attendance. When I went to college you were required to know the course content to a passing degree by the end of the course. In this hvac course you are required to have enough time in plus get a passing grade. I have had many classes that are really going well and the night flys by and we will run over the time. Especially when I have guest speakers like Dan Foley, or Wes from Wirsbo or Ole Bob from HTP or Jack Guilfolye from the local B & G rep. Sometimes it's hard to get the students out the door. Other times things finish up before the alotted 3 hours and I am expected to hold these guys in the classroom. Reading their texts if necessary. They have worked a full day already and are sitting an extra 3 hours in a classroom before a long drive home. Some over an hour away. I find this insulting to the tradesperson that they are held to a different standard than an ordinary college student. The message I get from above is that since you guys are not as smart, we have to put a time teather on you to make sure you are really earning your degree, rather than, if you know the information and can pass the final you can decide for yourself if you need to be here. Sorry for the rant. It bugs me. It changes me from a teacher to a babysitter. Pah! WW

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Techman

Education

Morning All!Personally,I'm a mechanic who happens to be a Boss ,I go to 5-7 classes each year,every year,except the year my mom got sick and passed.I've had many workers say NO to the same classes. My responce as a Boss is this"There's only two ways to make more money, work more hours OR be worth more money per hour ". The choice is YOURS. If you can't fix the newer equipment(10 years or so )then you are not worth more money per hour.EDUCATION-EDUCATION-EDUCATION.Enjoy your day!

Unknown

anothermarty

Those one day sessions are called seminars and for those who cannot get to a full time course or just need a refresher they are very valuable. I run week straight seminars to give a full curriculm of training.

As for the one guy who signed up, I run classes for 50 or for one to me education is to valuable to work from numbers. However in a technical school you certainly cannot do that as it would be a great waste of training dollars. It is much easier to do with seminars.

Unknown

Training

I'm quite pleased with the attendance at many of the seminars that Ron Beck and I have been conducting this year. I was in Vermont last week at a Trade Show put on by The Granite Group and had a room filled to capacity for the afternoon. Our event at Fenway Park on Wednesday was a sellout so we have another scheduled for next Tueday night which is, as i understand it, also sold out. I was in CT with Shelton Winnelson with a standing room only group for several hours last night. It is indeed encouraging to keep getting attendance like this time after time. The best part is that I have done both of these events before and the attendees are always a different group each time.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

[Deleted User]

Plumdog...

I remember your call quite well. The reason I referred you to JB was to make certain that you were qualified to take the course, or to see if there were some co-requisites that you could be taking.

The course title is "Advanced Hydronic Controls". If you have little experience as it pertains to electricity and basic control logic, the class could overwhelm you, and as a practiced educator, that is the LAST thing I want to happen to ANY of my students.

If, after having had the conversation with JB about your qualifications you felt you WERE qualified, you should have called me back.

Sorry for the missed opportunity. It will come around again...

Regretfully,

ME

[Deleted User]

Wayne...

I hear you loud and clear. They threatened us with a time clock, and I told them they could find someone else to do their baby sitting.

There are some instructors who really take advantage of the rules. They are the 1% that ruin it for the 99%. I told them that if they had a problem with 1%, they should get rid of the 1%er and let the rest of us do our jobs.

ME

siggy

direct promotion

Mark,

For the last 15 years I have been offering the MODERN HYDRONIC SYSTEMS course at Mohawk Valley Community College in Utica, NY. The only degree program that requires this course is Air Conditioning Technology and enrollment is such that the course only has to run in the spring semester. However, I've been able to run it in the fall semester by directly promoting it to local tradespeople (see attachment). I e-mail this "flyer" as a PDF file to all local trade contacts including contractors, wholesalers, rep firms. I suggest they print and post it as well as pass it on via their e-mails. It gets e-mailed to this contact list 3 times before the course begins. Without this I've found it's highly unlikely that local tradespeople would even know the course exists or when it's available. The college still operates on the basis of - if we offer it they will find us, register on campus at our convenience, and pay the full tuition before experiencing any of the product. This worked in the past, and may still work for English, math, and other commodity courses, but not for specialized courses, especially when they are not required by a degree program. Bottom line: If I want the course to run I have to promote it myself, and on a “try before you buy” basis. Although we don’t get huge enrollments (typically 10-12 per semester) it’s certainly better than not running the course at all.

siggy

[Deleted User]

Good idea John,

Our department (Construction Trades Division) does a mail out flyer to all licensed plumbers right before the start of every semester, but I have not persoanlly gone out to all of my suppliers and let them know that I have a course that can be attended by their customers that will keep their customers from calling them continuously with silly questions.

Not a bad idea...


Thanks!

ME

Jim Davis_3

Procrastination

We have found that a lot of contractors like to wait until the last minute to sign up.. Obviously the hot summer kept everyone out of training.

The Washington DC is back on. 10-15 people signed up in the last couple days and the class is almost full. Heading to Omaha today and that class is close to full. People are starting to show interest again but not nearly the numbers that should be expected. Somehow if people are successful doing things wrong they just don't want to change.

Tony_23

ROFLMAO

Jim, that last sentence hit the nail squarely !!!

That is, however, what causes me the need to explain myself to potential customers and lose some opportunities to the "successful" contractor who is doing it wrong. The reasoning seems to be that if it's "always been done that way" how can it be wrong

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