Replacing 2 pipe steam

Steamhead (in transit)

the level of disruption to the house and to your lives that a complete tear-out and completely new installation would involve. If there are pipes in the walls that are to be replaced, for example, you now have to repair the walls, chair rails, baseboard etc that were opened up. If the floors were refinished and they didn't disconnect the radiators to get underneath them, you now have to finish refinishing these areas. You'll have plaster dust everywhere, and you'll probably have a heart attack when you see how much all this additional work would cost. Can you say "can of worms"?

And think of the effect this will have on your return on investment.

I can't believe a new system would cost the same as fixing what you have. Maybe you're not talking to the right contractors. Some don't know steam at all and jack up their prices to avoid working on it.

Keep your Webster system.



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DennisK

Replacing 2 pipe steam

I have been reading this site and some of Dan's books for about 3 years, looking to replace my 100+ year old boiler and repair my 2 pipe Webster modulation system. I have been very psyched about doing this, particularly to speak with people who care about this sort of work to do it properly. Unfortunately, all the prices that I have gotten to get it done right have been pretty close to the cost of ripping it all out and replacing with a high efficiency hydronic system, which I suspect will look better to prospective buyers in the future.

So now I have a new quest...what features do I ask for in a hydronic system. The house is 3600 Sf, 3 floors, planning on 3 zones. All I have heard is to ask for bronze circulating pumps. Any other suggestions.

Thanks,

David

DennisK

Replacing 2 pipe steam

I have been reading this site and some of Dan's books for about 3 years, looking to replace my 100+ year old boiler and repair my 2 pipe Webster modulation system. I have been very psyched about doing this, particularly to speak with people who care about this sort of work to do it properly. Unfortunately, all the prices that I have gotten to get it done right have been pretty close to the cost of ripping it all out and replacing with a high efficiency hydronic system, which I suspect will look better to prospective buyers in the future.

So now I have a new quest...what features do I ask for in a hydronic system. The house is 3600 Sf, 3 floors, planning on 3 zones. All I have heard is to ask for bronze circulating pumps. Any other suggestions.

Thanks,

David

Brad White_9

Bronze circulators?

Nothing wrong with them but save the money for open water systems. Close systems using iron pipes -yes even bronze- will be fine. I have to question the notion of suggesting that. Do they know what they are doing, to be blunt.

Let's kick around the "replace the steam with hot water" ball around a bit more, shall we?

Unknown

uh ohhh... here

Un ohhh here comes Steamhead......

Christian Egli_2

I had to give it a kick, you taunted me...

You did ask about any other suggestions, here I go.

It is hard to believe a boiler that is 100+ years old is still giving you good service. Isn't it amazing? anyway you look at it, this steam system has already proved itself to be a great investment. After a hundred years, it's hard to begrudge it a new boiler and some maintenance.

A new boiler and new traps is a rather straightforward swap and perhaps (but I doubt it since you're still on boiler no. 1) some return line repairs to add to that cost and I'm not sure all this has to be more expensive that an all new low temperature water system with new boiler, new flue, new and carefully designed pipes, new valves and new recomputed radiation, new controls and particularly new gold colored bronze pumps.

Webster two pipes are mighty good. I'm pretty sure some of your original traps are still doing just fine. Steam systems can be zoned just as easily as water. New radiator valves and new thermostatic control will do the trick.

With a new steam boiler, no one can fault you for not being a good steward. And if this is a historic home, I would even consider keeping the old boiler in place, just taken out of service and preserved. There is always time to remove it later.

For the rest, you have an old fashioned home, what's wrong with consistent heat? Plus you'll avoid the scars that come with fighting with pipes. I know in the olden days, dandies thought it a mark of braveness to exhibit a scar they might have collected somewhere during a duel - but today? and all across the ceiling and down the wall of the front parlor, I just don't know.

Of course, simply swapping the steam boiler for a condensing one will give you more of an hydronic adventure.

Good luck to you Dave

gerry gill

i just can't imagine

how it could be cheaper to put in a hydronic system instead of fixing an already installed system?

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frank_25

Ahhh, steam...sweet steam

If you were planing a complete gut rehab, then a forced, radient mod/con would do ya good. But as a system only swap? fugedabodit! By the time you completely re-furbish ALL yor rooms, the joy of it will all but dimish. Perhaps you could add an additional steam main or two and use ZV's. You have such a grand lady there, that home of yours. Do her proud and keep 'er steamin'.

DennisK

How could it be cheaper?

I'ts not cheaper, but its darn close, especially as I may be able to avoid relining the chimney by using a direct venting boiler. I know that you get what you pay for, and if I'm rehabbing the steam system, it has to be done right, but those quotes are way up there, at least in this area.

Dave

Unknown

dave....

Dave, who's doing the job? The real boiler pros or just plumber, worst yet, furnace company doing the job? Got me wondering why would they sell ya bronze pumps if u are doing the changeover.....

Unknown

forgot to

Forgot to ask... Where are you located?

Christian Egli_2

Me too I forgot

Boilers don't stand in for system

Don't think installing a higher efficiency mod/con water boiler will give you higher whole system efficiency. As with everything else, it may and it may not. In a converted system that was meant to operate with steam, it doubtfully will.

One thing for sure, you won't have the steam system efficiencies anymore.

Steamhead (in transit)

You can get direct-vent steam boilers

from Burnham and others. Any contractor who says otherwise is just trying to take your money.

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DennisK

All of the quotes are from plumbers who seem to know what they are doing with steam. I have talked with several people who clearly did not know what they were doing, and didn't get quotes from them.We are located in the Boston area. I wasn't aware that you could get direct venting steam boilers, but since we would be stuck with the same location in the basement as the old boiler, there would be no way to get it vented except by the old chimney. The bronze circulating pump idea was something that I had read somewhere, not something that the plumber brought up. I just wanted to know what to ask for with a new hydronic system.

As for the mess, since the steam system was tampered with, I'm pretty sure that we are going to have a mess anyway, around the same plumbing chases that the steam system uses. We are talking, of course, about repiping.

Dave

Steamhead (in transit)

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