Pressure Test on Rough-In

Chris H.

I am all over the ultra sonic. Sounds like the wonder tool. I just hope one of my buddies can locate to try out this first time. Merry X-mas to you too!

Chris H.

Slow Leak

I (and my steamfitter friend) have roughed in my garage and basement. I have 11 loops in the basement and 4 in the garage. The basement is not holding the pressure. It was holding at 45 psi for 36 hours then 24 hours later it is down about .5 lbs. The soapy stuff is not telling us anything.

After a year I am now ready to finish the install. Should I:

1. Track down the leak for sure. I'm thinking I could isolate the 3 SafeLink manifolds to narrow it down. We sure had trouble with these having leaks we could see on the drain ends. We could also use freon and a detector...? Other options...

2. Finish install and look for water spots or water leaking from the mainfold.

Also, my garage is really cold now. Should I wait until spring to bring the system up. I live in Omaha

Adam_12

If the line dropped 1/2 lb in 52 hours it is fine .The air comes out of the compressor hot and will cool causing the pressure to drop.Generally if you do not see a drop of 1 lb in an hour the line is fine.But if you feel the need to test it again go for it .I wouldnt fill the system until your ready to start it .Heck it only takes 5 minutes to fill it but it may cause you grief in the future if it freezes.

Chris H.

Thanks Adam,

I forgot to mention that we are testing it with nitrogen. So it shouldn't be affected by temperature flucuations. I just got home from work and checked it again. It is down another 1/4 lbs. So, less then a pound in 80 hours. The garage hasn't budged.


On my drive, I figured I could get some propane heaters and get the garage warm. If I maintained at 60 degrees, how long do you think it would take to warm the slab to a safe temperature?

Ted_9

water

can you fill it with water long enough to look for a leak. I know you thought of this, but did you try it?

Dont use any refrigerant or refrigerant leak detectors.

Wait is this pex or black pipe?

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Cosmo_3

More often than not...

The test guage leaks ;0

Hey Ted, are you fasting for Xmas like a good boy? I just got a talking to from my mom (when you lived under your father's roof we always fasted! What happened to you!), seems one of my Aunts saw me pull into the Arby's...... aren't Greek mom's great! ;/

Happy Xmas Patrioti

Cosmo Valavanis

Dependable P.H.C. Inc.

S Ebels

Very likely

A leak that slow would be on a valve stem or a threaded cap. If your manifold fittings are compression type vs a pressed type attachment that would be a good place to check also. As for filling the system, check the actual slab temp with an infrared thermometer. If it's below freezing use some antifreeze in your fill fluid. Dumping in plain old H2O and having it freeze before you can get heated circulation will ruin your day. Trust me on this, it's the little voice of experience talking to you.

Chris H.

Yes, I have considered adding the water. I just thought that it would be easier to work on it in the dry. Does the freon react with PEX? I read in another thread that helium could be used with a dectector. It this an option?

It is Infloor 1/2" PEX. Thanks!

Chris H.

That is reassuring that you think it is above ground. The PEX ties in with compression fittings. The valve stem could certainly be the problem also. I am leaning towards the isolation and keep hunting.

I can't believe I didn't think of an infrared sensor... I read many other threads here before posting and I am definitly going to have some glycol in the garage floor before turning off the supplemental heat. Wow, I can't believe what some of you have been through. From what I am reading, I am guessing a 25% mixture. Does that sound right?

Thanks so much for the reply!

Weezbo

Just Doit *~/:)

if the slab is been about 50 ish most of the time as work has been progressing id just power purge each loop and set it to cranking....

pinner leaks above ground on test equipment purge valves packings circ pump gaskets if you have a Go Pro ultra sound you might narrow it down to The one .. when you say really cold what are you meaning? 20 30 ish? a little propyline glycol goes a long way

Drew_2

Leak

If you fill the system with a propylene glycol solution it will show you leaks that were not apparent with water. The PG changes the viscosity of the fluid solution. Take a look at www.noblecompany.com, click on products then on Noburst
-100. There you will find charts for mixing it to a specific freeze temp. If you have questions about antifreeze call me at 800-678-6625, Ext. 108
Hope this helps.
Drew

Tom R.

Nitrogen leaks

I have seen nitrogen leak for some reason where air won't, so why not try it with compressed air? If you still suspect a leak, try filling with RV antifreeze (50/50 propylene glycol/water mix) and then add pressure. That mix will not freeze hard down to -50 deg. Your basement and garage with 1/2" PEX couldn't hold much. Lot cheaper than dealing with a freeze up.

Chris H.

Thanks for the link (and contact info)... Looks like I should shoot for getting close to 50% for a factor of safety.

Chris H.

How does the the ultra sound work?

Typically, my garage never gets below the mid 20's, but the weather here can go below zero for a couple days at a time. I will do the glycol. Cheap insurance...

Chris H.

I did know that about nitrogen. It makes sense, though. I will try air before filling with liquid.

Definitely going with the glycol - 50:50. Thanks!

Weezbo

It seems like the plan Chris *~/:)

it may just be the easiest way to get things rolling. you likely wouldnt need a heavy concentration so i give you a "hint", when you pump the glycol and water mix into the system(loops) mix it a little bit like 25% glycol,power purge the loops then add water to the boiler and step it up to like 70-80 degrees and shut it off and let it sit a few mins...the temp will rise abit as it will over shoot from the burn cycle. now ,if you take an extension cord and connect the recirc pump from the boiler and any in jection pump and any system pump and then turn the boiler back on again and run it up to like 140 and shut it back down all the headder should be hot glycol everywhere in the boliler in the fields all is good ...listen for leaks thats what an ultra sound does ...it acts somewhat like Sherlock Holmes and the local blood hound as it is really sharp about picking up even bubble leaks...like all tools there are some things that can be determined with experience that might be dismissed as indistinguishable yet for the most part the sound gets more intence as one nears the source of the leak and that inturn increases the power signal on a light bar scale both of which can be dialed down as one approaches a leak as it is very loud inside the Ear s of the head set connected to the monitor. it is one of the more fun things of the mechanical trades Gizmoes it has another piece that can propagate a siginal in the ultra sound range much different than anything one could detect by chance and it has 4 variations 2 tone 2 intensities...that enables you to send a known sound through a pipe or container and here from whence it emanates most loudly it can be used to figure out what on earth this electrical conduit is doing in this concrete wall and oh wow that box is behind the wall there living in that bay of the sheetrock as there is not alot of problems with balancing rir systems i wont elaborate on how that works to detct leaky hrv ductwork or plenums that arent tied together or huge oh oh s left disconnected in the ceiling up in the red iron...it can work with vaccume leaks just as well as pressure leaks, i tend to ramble ....sorry bout that. well ,have a habby Christ Mass *~/:)

Mike Thomas_2

Ultrasonic Leak detector

I use to install a lot of baseboard heat in Alaska. I would always pressure test the system. I used an ultrasonic leak detector. It got to where I would get the system all plumbed up, then walk around with the leak detector and as soon as I walked in to a room I could tell the leak was in that room. I would usually start at 25 pounds of pressure, check everything. Then crank it up to 50 psi, and check again. Last check woud be at 75 psi. I found that different pressures would get a leak to show up within the range of my detector, where just one pressure would sometimes miss a leak. Once I always did this 3 step approach I never had a system that leaked, and I always used anti-freeze. Previous post was correct, you can have a system on water that never leaks, you put anti-freeze in it and it will look like a garden sprinkler. Using different types of gasses, nitrogen, helium, etc will give different results, because the molecules are different sizes, thus they leak through different size holes. Use plain old air from your air compressor, a leak detector, and 3 step testing will get you out of trouble.

Chris H.

Thanks for the post. I would have never thought of using different pressures. I am going to try to locate an ultra sonic to test it out. Sounds like a real lifesaver.

Thanks Again - Chris

Sean_11

pressure/temperature

Chris,

At a constant volume, I believe that the pressure of any gas will be affected by temperature. Is it possible that the slab's temperature has dropped, even a little, from when you first filled with nitrogen?

Best regards,

Sean