Help Me! (repost)

Shawn Bisgrove

I guess that I sent out the wrong message. Although I will probably go with a professional to get the job done, I would like to know what all of the options are before I choose a contractor. The first one came to me recommended but did nothing more than measure radiators. I too am a contractor and understand $ labor makes the world go round. The point that aggravated me was the fact that I asked for a itemized quote and backup material and none was given.

He did not provide me anything more than a single sheet of paper. If this is the best a recommended contractor can do, than I am in trouble.

Before undergoing surgery one educates oneself before actually going under the knife. What are the options, risks, etc. This does not mean that one does the surgery himself/herself. Although if there is a better solution than the one presented by one qualified doctor....

This is an old system, there are many variables....

I was posting this as a question more of what are some options that I should ask when the "contractors" are in the house.

Shawn Bisgrove

heating help

First, the problem (skip to the bottom for the questions):

I have a Utica boiler from 1952 which has and continues to function fine. However, my current heating bill is continuing to go up even though my usage is down. I now keep the house at 60 degrees during the day and 57 at night. During 0 degree days, my furnace operates around the clock and for every hour of operation it cost aproximately $3.00 in Natural Gas costs. I have a 3 year old daughter who struts around at old-time theater for Dance class where all of the other kids are wearing coats. This is because she is used to the colder temperatures. I also have a son (9 months) who we bundle up so we can keep the bills under control ($3600 a year for NG/Electricity for last year).

I had a local heating company come in and wanted them to give me a quote for the job of puting in a new more efficient boiler next to the existing one. What annoyed me was I asked the guy up front to supply me both an itemized list and the means by which he sized the radiator. He provided neither and only gave me a quote for a 250-MGB Utica Boiler and a few of the other items like rewiring, not including flue. The quote for this was $8,800. I looked up the cost of the parts and they ran about 3,300. They promised they would send me a new quote, but I have been waiting a week and no new quote or backup material has arrived. The particulars of the cost are unimportant, rather the fact that they did not provide me the information I asked for.

I have done plumbing (copper to replace the cast iron), electrical (rewired my entire house w/ 12g including attic subpanel and new main inspected and approved), and hot air work in the past and think that if I plan this job out just like the last ones, I could manage to do this as well. I was already planing on changing out the hot water heater and installing a NG fireplace insert. So I refuse to do business with people who cannot listen when I seeming ask for simple things such as a price breakout or backup material.

I can afford to spend about $6000 and am really not trying to cut corners. I just don't like being taken advantage of. If people don't listen prior to getting paid, what is to say they will listen to you after. Also, I know the guy did a radiation only measurement of the house.

What I want to do:

My uncle works for a plumbing/heating supply business in NY and can get me the parts I need. I have a local plumbing store which can order me anything else that I would need. They also can cut and thread iron where needed. My flue is not in the best of shapes and I would like to side vent the system I put in. Burnham is my top choice as a replacement (Natural Gas). My uncle does not sell Utica. Given that the EDR radiator sizing comes to 220,000 BTU and there is really no direct vent system that would cover that, should I go with a 2 boiler system. On many days such as today @ 25 degrees the boiler runs for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours at night to keep the house at 60degrees and then during the night 57 degrees. I have rockwool in the attic and plan on (god forgive me for saying this) blowing in insulation next summer. A heat loss estimate have not been done because I am waiting for the books that Dan wrote before I do that (however it the house is a stucco 1910 2 story 2800 square foot and the snow stays put on the roof during the winter).

I also need to change out all of the shutoffs for the radiators because many of them are original to the radiator installation (1910). I am afraid if I were to turn them, they could start leaking horibbly. One already went and the local plumber that can actually spent the time to show me what to do in the future. One tool later and I feel pretty confident I can tackle this problem ( I will be looking for the orifices plates when I do the switchover).


After all of that So my questions are?

Is my old furnace as inefficient as the guy said it was (50%)? It has been converted from coal to oil to gas and currently has a 150-300btu insert in the oven part of the furnace (as I joke with folks, I could probably cook a few turkeys in there).

If I build a new system? Should I continue to use iron to attach to the new boiler?

Should I just put in metal flue to line the old flue?

Should I go with a two boiler system? And if so, should I reline the flue or go with side vent (power vent). How does the one boiler trigger the second boiler to kick on (temperature of the water?) certainly not the temperature of the house (then they would always be on or off together).

Do I need a bypass since I am moving to a circulator closed system?

Is closing the system as simple as capping the pipe in the attic and making sure the pressure is equivelent to the pressure gauge that I currently read to make sure the system is operating optimally (10psi)?

I appologize for the length of this message, I will unfortunately have more questions once I figure out the list of things I need to get.

Shawn Bisgrove

heating help

First, the problem (skip to the bottom for the questions):

I have a Utica boiler from 1952 which has and continues to function fine. However, my current heating bill is continuing to go up even though my usage is down. I now keep the house at 60 degrees during the day and 57 at night. During 0 degree days, my furnace operates around the clock and for every hour of operation it cost aproximately $3.00 in Natural Gas costs. I have a 3 year old daughter who struts around at old-time theater for Dance class where all of the other kids are wearing coats. This is because she is used to the colder temperatures. I also have a son (9 months) who we bundle up so we can keep the bills under control ($3600 a year for NG/Electricity for last year).

I had a local heating company come in and wanted them to give me a quote for the job of puting in a new more efficient boiler next to the existing one. What annoyed me was I asked the guy up front to supply me both an itemized list and the means by which he sized the radiator. He provided neither and only gave me a quote for a 250-MGB Utica Boiler and a few of the other items like rewiring, not including flue. The quote for this was $8,800. I looked up the cost of the parts and they ran about 3,300. They promised they would send me a new quote, but I have been waiting a week and no new quote or backup material has arrived. The particulars of the cost are unimportant, rather the fact that they did not provide me the information I asked for.

I have done plumbing (copper to replace the cast iron), electrical (rewired my entire house w/ 12g including attic subpanel and new main inspected and approved), and hot air work in the past and think that if I plan this job out just like the last ones, I could manage to do this as well. I was already planing on changing out the hot water heater and installing a NG fireplace insert. So I refuse to do business with people who cannot listen when I seeming ask for simple things such as a price breakout or backup material.

I can afford to spend about $6000 and am really not trying to cut corners. I just don't like being taken advantage of. If people don't listen prior to getting paid, what is to say they will listen to you after. Also, I know the guy did a radiation only measurement of the house.

What I want to do:

My uncle works for a plumbing/heating supply business in NY and can get me the parts I need. I have a local plumbing store which can order me anything else that I would need. They also can cut and thread iron where needed. My flue is not in the best of shapes and I would like to side vent the system I put in. Burnham is my top choice as a replacement (Natural Gas). My uncle does not sell Utica. Given that the EDR radiator sizing comes to 220,000 BTU and there is really no direct vent system that would cover that, should I go with a 2 boiler system. On many days such as today @ 25 degrees the boiler runs for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours at night to keep the house at 60degrees and then during the night 57 degrees. I have rockwool in the attic and plan on (god forgive me for saying this) blowing in insulation next summer. A heat loss estimate have not been done because I am waiting for the books that Dan wrote before I do that (however it the house is a stucco 1910 2 story 2800 square foot and the snow stays put on the roof during the winter).

I also need to change out all of the shutoffs for the radiators because many of them are original to the radiator installation (1910). I am afraid if I were to turn them, they could start leaking horibbly. One already went and the local plumber that can actually spent the time to show me what to do in the future. One tool later and I feel pretty confident I can tackle this problem ( I will be looking for the orifices plates when I do the switchover).

After all of that So my questions are?

Is my old furnace as inefficient as the guy said it was (50%)? It has been converted from coal to oil to gas and currently has a 150-300btu insert in the oven part of the furnace (as I joke with folks, I could probably cook a few turkeys in there).

If I build a new system? Should I continue to use iron to attach to the new boiler?

Should I just put in metal flue to line the old flue?

Should I go with a two boiler system? And if so, should I reline the flue or go with side vent (power vent). How does the one boiler trigger the second boiler to kick on (temperature of the water?) certainly not the temperature of the house (then they would always be on or off together).

Do I need a bypass since I am moving to a circulator closed system?

Is closing the system as simple as capping the pipe in the attic and making sure the pressure is equivelent to the pressure gauge that I currently read to make sure the system is operating optimally (10psi)?

I appologize for the length of this message, I will unfortunately have more questions once I figure out the list of things I need to get.

Shawn Bisgrove

heating help

First, the problem (skip to the bottom for the questions):

I have a Utica boiler from 1952 which has and continues to function fine. However, my current heating bill is continuing to go up even though my usage is down. I now keep the house at 60 degrees during the day and 57 at night. During 0 degree days, my furnace operates around the clock and for every hour of operation it cost aproximately $3.00 in Natural Gas costs. I have a 3 year old daughter who struts around at old-time theater for Dance class where all of the other kids are wearing coats. This is because she is used to the colder temperatures. I also have a son (9 months) who we bundle up so we can keep the bills under control ($3600 a year for NG/Electricity for last year).

I had a local heating company come in and wanted them to give me a quote for the job of puting in a new more efficient boiler next to the existing one. What annoyed me was I asked the guy up front to supply me both an itemized list and the means by which he sized the radiator. He provided neither and only gave me a quote for a 250-MGB Utica Boiler and a few of the other items like rewiring, not including flue. The quote for this was $8,800. I looked up the cost of the parts and they ran about 3,300. They promised they would send me a new quote, but I have been waiting a week and no new quote or backup material has arrived. The particulars of the cost are unimportant, rather the fact that they did not provide me the information I asked for.

I have done plumbing (copper to replace the cast iron), electrical (rewired my entire house w/ 12g including attic subpanel and new main inspected and approved), and hot air work in the past and think that if I plan this job out just like the last ones, I could manage to do this as well. I was already planing on changing out the hot water heater and installing a NG fireplace insert. So I refuse to do business with people who cannot listen when I seeming ask for simple things such as a price breakout or backup material.

I can afford to spend about $6000 and am really not trying to cut corners. I just don't like being taken advantage of. If people don't listen prior to getting paid, what is to say they will listen to you after. Also, I know the guy did a radiation only measurement of the house.

What I want to do:

My uncle works for a plumbing/heating supply business in NY and can get me the parts I need. I have a local plumbing store which can order me anything else that I would need. They also can cut and thread iron where needed. My flue is not in the best of shapes and I would like to side vent the system I put in. Burnham is my top choice as a replacement (Natural Gas). My uncle does not sell Utica. Given that the EDR radiator sizing comes to 220,000 BTU and there is really no direct vent system that would cover that, should I go with a 2 boiler system. On many days such as today @ 25 degrees the boiler runs for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours at night to keep the house at 60degrees and then during the night 57 degrees. I have rockwool in the attic and plan on (god forgive me for saying this) blowing in insulation next summer. A heat loss estimate have not been done because I am waiting for the books that Dan wrote before I do that (however it the house is a stucco 1910 2 story 2800 square foot and the snow stays put on the roof during the winter).

I also need to change out all of the shutoffs for the radiators because many of them are original to the radiator installation (1910). I am afraid if I were to turn them, they could start leaking horibbly. One already went and the local plumber that can actually spent the time to show me what to do in the future. One tool later and I feel pretty confident I can tackle this problem ( I will be looking for the orifices plates when I do the switchover).

After all of that So my questions are?

Is my old furnace as inefficient as the guy said it was (50%)? It has been converted from coal to oil to gas and currently has a 150-300btu insert in the oven part of the furnace (as I joke with folks, I could probably cook a few turkeys in there).

If I build a new system? Should I continue to use iron to attach to the new boiler?

Should I just put in metal flue to line the old flue?

Should I go with a two boiler system? And if so, should I reline the flue or go with side vent (power vent). How does the one boiler trigger the second boiler to kick on (temperature of the water?) certainly not the temperature of the house (then they would always be on or off together).

Do I need a bypass since I am moving to a circulator closed system?

Is closing the system as simple as capping the pipe in the attic and making sure the pressure is equivelent to the pressure gauge that I currently read to make sure the system is operating optimally (10psi)?

I appologize for the length of this message, I will unfortunately have more questions once I figure out the list of things I need to get.

Shawn Bisgrove

heating help a bunch of questions

First, the problem (skip to the bottom for the questions):

I have a Utica boiler from 1952 which has and continues to function fine. However, my current heating bill is continuing to go up even though my usage is down. I now keep the house at 60 degrees during the day and 57 at night. During 0 degree days, my furnace operates around the clock and for every hour of operation it cost aproximately $3.00 in Natural Gas costs. I have a 3 year old daughter who struts around at old-time theater for Dance class where all of the other kids are wearing coats. This is because she is used to the colder temperatures. I also have a son (9 months) who we bundle up so we can keep the bills under control ($3600 a year for NG/Electricity for last year).

I had a local heating company come in and wanted them to give me a quote for the job of puting in a new more efficient boiler next to the existing one. What annoyed me was I asked the guy up front to supply me both an itemized list and the means by which he sized the radiator. He provided neither and only gave me a quote for a 250-MGB Utica Boiler and a few of the other items like rewiring, not including flue. The quote for this was $8,800. I looked up the cost of the parts and they ran about 3,300. They promised they would send me a new quote, but I have been waiting a week and no new quote or backup material has arrived. The particulars of the cost are unimportant, rather the fact that they did not provide me the information I asked for.

I have done plumbing (copper to replace the cast iron), electrical (rewired my entire house w/ 12g including attic subpanel and new main inspected and approved), and hot air work in the past and think that if I plan this job out just like the last ones, I could manage to do this as well. I was already planing on changing out the hot water heater and installing a NG fireplace insert. So I refuse to do business with people who cannot listen when I seeming ask for simple things such as a price breakout or backup material.

I can afford to spend about $6000 and am really not trying to cut corners. I just don't like being taken advantage of. If people don't listen prior to getting paid, what is to say they will listen to you after. Also, I know the guy did a radiation only measurement of the house.

What I want to do:

My uncle works for a plumbing/heating supply business in NY and can get me the parts I need. I have a local plumbing store which can order me anything else that I would need. They also can cut and thread iron where needed. My flue is not in the best of shapes and I would like to side vent the system I put in. Burnham is my top choice as a replacement (Natural Gas). My uncle does not sell Utica. Given that the EDR radiator sizing comes to 220,000 BTU and there is really no direct vent system that would cover that, should I go with a 2 boiler system. On many days such as today @ 25 degrees the boiler runs for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours at night to keep the house at 60degrees and then during the night 57 degrees. I have rockwool in the attic and plan on (god forgive me for saying this) blowing in insulation next summer. A heat loss estimate have not been done because I am waiting for the books that Dan wrote before I do that (however it the house is a stucco 1910 2 story 2800 square foot and the snow stays put on the roof during the winter).

I also need to change out all of the shutoffs for the radiators because many of them are original to the radiator installation (1910). I am afraid if I were to turn them, they could start leaking horibbly. One already went and the local plumber that can actually spent the time to show me what to do in the future. One tool later and I feel pretty confident I can tackle this problem ( I will be looking for the orifices plates when I do the switchover).

After all of that So my questions are?

Is my old furnace as inefficient as the guy said it was (50%)? It has been converted from coal to oil to gas and currently has a 150-300btu insert in the oven part of the furnace (as I joke with folks, I could probably cook a few turkeys in there).

If I build a new system? Should I continue to use iron to attach to the new boiler?

Should I just put in metal flue to line the old flue?

Should I go with a two boiler system? And if so, should I reline the flue or go with side vent (power vent). How does the one boiler trigger the second boiler to kick on (temperature of the water?) certainly not the temperature of the house (then they would always be on or off together).

Do I need a bypass since I am moving to a circulator closed system?

Is closing the system as simple as capping the pipe in the attic and making sure the pressure is equivelent to the pressure gauge that I currently read to make sure the system is operating optimally (10psi)?

I appologize for the length of this message, I will unfortunately have more questions once I figure out the list of things I need to get.

Big Ed

Handyman

Not a job you can handle without taking a chance with the health of your family..Don't fool your self in to a mistake....Find your self a pro that you can deal with. Do what you do best and hire what they do best...There is a lot of money , hard work and know how please don't sell it short....I know this is something you don't want to hear.......But I have a weeks worth of nightmare stories I could scare you with...

clammy

opitions

I would go to the find a pro and seek there advise and there's a saying the cheapened of a price is soon forgotten after the bitterness of poor quality .On another instead of 2 boilers and re lining your chimmey why not use a condensing modulating boiler with a out door reset and putting a pump on on your gravity system also how about a indirect domestic water heater that also should cut your fuel comsumption down but keep in mind these system are not cheap and if you didn't like the 8 grand quote then you won't like quotes on this equiptmenet either .Not ragging so don't take it the wrong way but heat loses take time to do all the measuring and then loading all the info down this is not free time some one has to get paid for doing it right .Find a pro your original system lasted all this time why probaly because 50 years ago a pro installed it good luck and peace clammy

GMcD

Explore envelope upgrading options

A more efficient boiler is one thing, but to really cut down on energy costs and usage, you should also be looking at upgrading the building envelope to stop the heat losses in the first place. There should be some energy saving grants and utility support to allow some additional funding to upgrade your windows, sealing up infiltration points and adding insulation. Check with your Utilities, local Government and even Federal sources of energy efficiency upgrading grants and money assistance.

Shawn Bisgrove

To respond back to Chuckles on one more point. I understand this forum is for professionals. I am not arguing the cost of labor and I did not mean to seem to push that button. Like a car repair shop which posts its hourly rates, I just wanted to have the guy tell me what his labor rate was. I cannot argue that if he does a good job he is probably worth every penny given that I could really screw things up. He did not even mention that I could have 2 boilers or that he was even doing sizing only on current radiation sizing. He touched my flue and said that all the heat on the flue was heat going up the flue and said it was probably 50% efficient. If there are any contractor in the Oneida county area who would like to take on this job, feel free to contact me.

R. Kalia_8

OK.

You'll get a labor rate quote if you are willing to pay time and materials. Most homeowners (including me) want a fixed cost upfront, so that is what he gave you. If you want time and materials, ask for that and most people will be happy to oblige, but then you get no guarantees about total cost.

Of course some contractors make up their numbers based on what they think you will be willing to pay, etc., and don't have any idea what their own hourly rate is. So get some more quotes.

If you have steam, counting radiators is the right way to size boilers. If you have hot water, it is the wrong way, and a sure sign of an incompetent contractor.

Educating yourself is a good idea. There are lots of useful posts to read here; do a search to find older posts.

Shaun Anderson

Check out this site


www.desireusa.org

Great website to see state rebates


TheFuture

Shaun Anderson

Check out this site


www.desireusa.org

Great website to see state rebates


TheFuture

mark smith

obviously, the last contractor made the correct chioce in NOT giving you an itemized quotation, as the only purpose would be for you to produce a "shopping " list

Shawn Bisgrove

It is a hotwater system old style Gravity Utica Boiler. It is actually pretty simple. I watch the pressure gauge and temp throughout the year and bleed the radiators as needed. The boiler has no leaks and looks pretty good on the inside. The pinch is the efficiency. If it were pretty efficient, I would not even contemplate changing it out. If it aint broke, dont fix it. The parts are cheap for the insert because that went two years ago and the people from the company that is now bought out by this bigger firm (and no longer work there). The newer firm comes recommended but the people that recommended them concur that the smaller firm was much better.


Today my house has a good blanket of snow on it and the attic is fairly cold. Also the basement cold. I have open walls but I will be blowing insulation in next spring. I am also changing out the hot water tank in the spring as well.

Shawn Bisgrove

He gave me the list of parts that were included in the price. Utica Boiler MGB-250 and all of the small things, tanks, valves , pump, etc. The thing he did not give me was the backup material used to select the Utica Boiler size.

Shawn Bisgrove

then is this true,

Is what he told me correct about the metal flue going from the boiler to the vertical chimney flue being hot means it the system is ineffiecient.

Uni R

Hot water and natural gas...

This home-moaner would be looking at a modulating condensing boiler... even though you may not have enough radiation to condense on truly cold days. Given that your heat loss requirements should be dropping as you improve the insulation and infiltration, the modulating feature will truly help in the future. Also, with the built in outdoor reset controls that most of these ModCon boilers have, the fact they use outside air and that the are very inexpensive and flexible for venting, they aren't really that much more than the conventional bang-bangers.

Shawn Bisgrove

So what would be a recommended modulating condensing boiler? Are they made by the same people Utica, Burnham, etc.

Ron Schroeder

Hi Shawn,

It is true that the hotter the exhaust, the less efficient the boiler is but you need to know how hot it is and the CO2 or O2 level to get actual numbers.

Adding insulation (I reccomend blown in cellulose) will help a lot. Plugging up air leaks will help too.

Shawn Bisgrove

Also, do they have the same lifetime expectancy. Who would I go to to give me a quote on one of these types of system. Are they the same type of people that would install conventional boilers or are are they different? (Much like hot air people are different).

Uni R

That choice is often determined by the contractor and what they are familiar with but I think with something like a Weil-McClain Ultra you can't go wrong.

I think the life expectancy of all heating equipment is getting shorter, but even if ModCon boilers are shorter lived and more complex than cast-iron bang-bang boilers it is important to note that tractors last far longer than cars yet nobody seems to want to commute in a tractor, even though they probably have far better visibility, comfortable cabs and can easily keep pace in bumper to bumper traffic, not to mention that they stand up very well to fender benders. The fuel savings are important and in 15 years or however many the boilers will be even more efficient when it comes time to change again.

R. Kalia_8

It is true. Modern non-condensing boilers more efficient primary because they don't send as much hot air up the flue. But it won't save you 30%, maybe 10%, maybe less.

Ryan_10

Let me give you..

my own response as a homeowner. I just bought a house where some contractor here installed a new boiler about 3 years ago. Biggest and supposedly best company in town. "Great" I thought, should be good then. *WRONG*.

The only thing right with the whole damned system is *NOTHING*. The new boiler is oversized. The mains aren't vented properly. One of the mains is the wrong size. They had the Pressuretrol set incorrectly. Everything they tore out and replaced they did with COPPER plumbed into the iron and covered with a bunch of pipe dope. They didn't put a stitch of insulation on any of the copper pipes they installed or a run of iron pipe they replaced. The basement was 90 degrees on a 10 degree day when I moved in because of this. The boiler was short cycling like crazy. They put in a new flue liner and installed the boiler correctly so that I didn't suffocate, and that's about it that is right.

Now, I don't know why a new boiler was installed, if the old one actually broke or if the old lady just wasn't warm enough. But installing a new boiler was about all that was done right. The system as a whole is a total mess, and a good contractor would have told the previous owner to fix all of the other crap because their heat still wouldn't work right otherwise. The extra money to do it all correctly would have been insignificant compared to what was spent to reline the chimney and put the boiler in, etc.

Granted, I have a steam system which is an esoteric little devil to most contractors and you have hot water, but still.. Good luck getting a good contractor. The guys on this forum know what they're doing, but that's WHY they're here. Many contractors don't want to do anything other than blow a lot of hot air through a house, and that isn't that hard to do, frankly.

I called the people who installed this mess to try to buy a few of the parts to fix their errors. THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE THE DAMNED PARTS TO DO IT RIGHT! And believe me, these people install and service a *LOT* of steam in this area.

All contractors are not worth paying money to do stuff. In any case, if you can't answer your own questions relatively well without merely needing some confirmation or useful affirmation on the answers, don't do it yourself. If you can't work with pipe and don't have all the tools for that, at least figure out HOW it should be done and hire someone to do the piping. I think you're on the right track by at least putting specific questions to your contractor and expecting a proper answer.

John S.

Shawn....

If you've got hot water, sounds like the contractor didn't know what he was doing. Sizing steam radiators to calculate a proper boiler size is correct. However, a heat loss calc of the structure needs to be done to size a hot water boiler.

I'm not sure about other professionals, but I wouldn't be surprised if a reputable contractor wouldn't give you a copy of their heat loss calc. That contractor would have taken a lot of time to calculate it and has studied hard to size the boiler properly. He may be willing to sit down and review it with you, but to give you a copy could potentially be doing someone elses work for them if he didn't get the job for another reason.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Al Corelli

You would have to pay seperately for the "Backup material" if it were me.

Why should I do another contractor's homework for them for free?

[Deleted User]

Wrong Chicklet breath...

So, as a homeowner, what qualifies you as an expert in retrofit energy savings? Ehh?

I, as a practiced professional heating contractor would GUARANTEE a minimum of a 30% saving, and feel that 50% is not out of the picture in the scenario given above.

Now THAT'S something you can take to the bank.

ME

Mark Hunt

How come


when you say it, it is allowed??!!??!!

"Chicklet breath"!! Yer killin' me!

ModCon boiler will knock you down by 35% minimum. That is gas consumption NOT monthly bills.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Uni R

If only...

If only there was a small hoop device you could fit around the end of the flu and measure the BTUs leaving the house. I would hate to put up a cast iron bang bang against any well sealed ModCon boiler in a contest where they are measured for a whole season heating equally controled homes and expect there to be only about a 10% difference (instead of it being much much more). I'd be very shocked indeed.

Shawn Bisgrove

Thank you for your post. I usually tend to like to know how things are done or what will be done. For the electric work in my house, I had the tools, knowledge and did it myself. My copper plumbing same thing. I am pretty used to working with black iron. I dont thread the stuff but the place where I get it threads it for a few bucks extra. Turnoff valves on the radiadiators are devilish because of the age, but with care I have replaced a few. If I knew the heat loss for the house (something I am not or dont have the tools to do above and beyond an analytical measurement of the rooms and charts based on wall material, windows, etc.) There are pieces to this job I can do and there are pieces that I do not know enough. For the pieces I can do , I would rather do them myself rather than having the HVAC company do them (such as the electric service work).

Shawn Bisgrove

Granted, however I dont know how he came up with the fact that I need a 250,000 BTU boiler. If another contract comes in and says I only need a 200,000 BTU boiler how am I to know who is right. When I contract either T&M or FP Completion, I am required by the contracting agency to provide company sensitive information that proves that my solution is sound. I don't want the actual scraps of paper, but a justification for how the boiler was chosen. If this is a black box with no insight, I am left to the mercy of what the quotes say. If I were a homeowner that didn't know the difference between some of the sheer lies I have heard from contractors that have walked through my house I would have rebuilt the house 5 times over. Now there are good people who have done work for me over the years and I am sure that these are the majority of the type of people who visit this site.

Back to the quote, I want to know when I am being jerked around and when I am not. If that means I need to pay for that information...

Shawn Bisgrove

If I want a good heat loss calculation, what should I be looking for.

Shawn Bisgrove

If the best heat loss calculation is analytically based, I have used the slantfin program in the past to compute heat loss. If i should be looking for someone with a infrared heat loss camera, fans, and chalk dust let me know.

Brian_19

Dittios

Modulatiing boilers do save. I have the fuel bills to prove it. American Standard boiler replaced with Ultra = 30% less fuel consumption.

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Ryan_10

Your wiring job ...

is a thing of beauty. It's like a cute little electrical menorah.

The homeowner who rewired some of my house 30 years ago strung wires through the crawspace and called it good. I kept getting tangled up in crap on the ground when scoping out my steam system in the crawlspace. Turns out, those were electrical wires.

Shawn Bisgrove

Thanks... All 12g and it feeds a subpanel in the attic that looks the same. Doing it myself let me decide the runs, quality of the parts etc. All of the sockets in the house are heavy duty 20amp. All the close to water runs are run on GFI breakers. Lights are run separately. All boxes exposed. Attic services the second floor, basement services the first. No walls were taken down or drilled into to string the new wire. No old wire was reused. Fixtures without boxes now all have metal boxes (not plastic). Since this project was completed, I feel much safer in my house.

The prior owner turned the tube & know / BX system into a fire hazzard by doing stupid stuff. For example he took a bared the tube and knob so he could take the pos and neg sides of the romex and mated them using electrical tape (talk about little shop of horrors when I opened up the attic floorboards). There were ceiling fans with no boxes securing them to the ceiling (just wood screws). There are many types of people out there, and this guy was both stupid and cheap. I am suprised he did not burn the structure down himself. It was kindof like the movie the "Money Pit"...

Alex Giacomuzzi

Nice Install...... Love the Mirror

Nice install......
I especially like the mirror in the corner to see what zones are running. I think I will borrow that idea if you do not mind. It will save me some contortions like you must have orignially had. Thanks for the idea......

By the way Chuckles above was NOT referencing a "mod comd" boiler as Mark had assumed, he was referencing a modern std. (atmospheric) boiler from what I can read...... and his statement appears correct.....with the savings stated..

Regards Alex