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How far do you go for jobs

on a T&M basis, we'll go anywhere they are willing to pay us to travel.

Since all contract jobs are predicated on our T&M hourly rate anyhow, we factor travel time into all firm priced estimated jobs as well.

Our furthest job to date? About 1.75 hrs. each way.

Our rates are always quoted and clearly billed as "portal to portal."

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Comments

  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    How far do you go for jobs (SE)

    I was asked to do the heating work in a new house about 75 miles from home base. I normally wouldn't consider this but the job is too sweet to pass up.

    Number 1. It's up on the Gold Coast of Michigan which is rapidly becoming the really "high rent district" in the state and will be a relatively recession proof area in which to work.

    Number 2. I have wanted to establish a presence in that area for the reason listed in #1

    Number 3. The job would encompass a lot of stuff that's flat out fun to do. 6,000 sq ft snow melt in 2 zones, radiant slab and custom panel rads in the house. Mega DHW. Split system AC, the works. I like challenging work!

    I'm just tossing the pro's and con's of drive time, being out of the "home" area during the heart of the heating service season, servicing and maintaining a system that's 140 miles away round trip. All that good stuff.

    I don't think the $$.$$ will be an issue. Total cost of the house is slated for around $1.6M. It's just that there are good points and bad points to the situation.

    Help me think it through. What are your thoughts?
  • Darin Cook_3
    Darin Cook_3 Member Posts: 389
    It all depends on the net $$$

    We are located in the Albany NY area and have worked in the Adirondack Mountain region as far as 80 miles to the north and some work downstate of us as far as 70 miles south. It comes down to the end profit and whether it is worth the extra required logistics involved. Many people only want us on their projects and also want us to take care of the plumbing and cooling. We do our best to be accommodating to their needs if possible. But in our case, We have friends who live in the North Country close to these projects and I own a camp in the same area. So that works for us. Not much of a sacrifice when you can have a camp fire, drink beer, go for a ride on the quad and exchange stories with friends. The same goes for our southern projects I grew up in that area and have family down there to stay with. But in our case it is only Mark and myself so we can pick and choose our work easier than if we were dealing with employees going there. But in any case you will have to carry money in your estimate for fuel and/or lodging for your employees. We specifically target high end hydronic work so we know we may be driving alot. But we carry the required dollars to cover this. In your case, the project you mention is a high dollar affair and creates the possibility of more of the same. It is definitely worth pursuing as long as you cover your bases. With the work I have seen you post, it sounds like you will be working out of town alot. Good Luck.







    Darin
  • John Ruhnke
    John Ruhnke Member Posts: 882
    I'll travel to Saudia Arabia if.................

    Steve,

    Calculate the travel expenses into the price. 75 miles is three hours of travel time My guys are expected to travel a maximum of 1.5 hour round trip in a day. Add 1.5 hours of travel time plus gas and vehicle wear and tear to the estimate. For me that could be equal to $175.00 added to the price per day. Maybe look at putting you and your guys up in a motel room. $200.00 per day for a room and meals, if the travel time is too long. Tell your client about the expenses ahead of time. If they are willing to let you include the added expense then bid on the job. If they say no then stay away because you can find more profitable jobs near home base. I have been paid to travel and do a project out of my area before. Most of the time they say no and I just look for a hydronic heating contractor closer to there area.

    JR

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    I am the walking Deadman
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    Hydronics is the most comfortable and energy efficient HVAC system.
  • Al Letellier_9
    Al Letellier_9 Member Posts: 929
    how far???

    > I was asked to do the heating work in a new house

    > about 75 miles from home base. I normally

    > wouldn't consider this but the job is too sweet

    > to pass up.

    >

    > Number 1. It's up on the Gold

    > Coast of Michigan which is rapidly becoming the

    > really "high rent district" in the state and will

    > be a relatively recession proof area in which to

    > work.

    >

    > Number 2. I have wanted to establish a

    > presence in that area for the reason listed in

    > #1

    >

    > Number 3. The job would encompass a lot of

    > stuff that's flat out fun to do. 6,000 sq ft snow

    > melt in 2 zones, radiant slab and custom panel

    > rads in the house. Mega DHW. Split system AC, the

    > works. I like challenging work!

    >

    > I'm just

    > tossing the pro's and con's of drive time, being

    > out of the "home" area during the heart of the

    > heating service season, servicing and maintaining

    > a system that's 140 miles away round trip. All

    > that good stuff.

    >

    > I don't think the $$.$$ will

    > be an issue. Total cost of the house is slated

    > for around $1.6M. It's just that there are good

    > points and bad points to the situation.

    >

    > Help

    > me think it through. What are your thoughts?





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  • Al Letellier_9
    Al Letellier_9 Member Posts: 929
    how far???

    To summarize the other posts...as far as they're willing to pay me to go. If it's that exciting a job, and you would like to get "in" up there, make sure you have a good relationship with your supplier or establish a good one with someone new.....logistics of getting the right stock when you need it is usually the biggest challenge when working that for from home.

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  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    Being that

    I'm 100 miles from the nearest decent supply house, we are used to that problem. And it is truly a problem when you get halfway through a day and find you are short or don't have that ONE STINKIN' FITTING!! Been there done that lot's of times.
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    It's the callbacks

    that eat away at profits on long distance jobs. The more complex, the more potential for callbacks. Also complicated systems may need a little more "hand holding" with the customer. Typically they want this service, from you, IN PERSON.

    It's real hard to put a number on that "unknown"

    And of course those callbacks will be when you can least afford the time and manpower to handle you local "loyal" customer base.

    I'd urge caution in this endevor! They always look enticing on the front end, from my experience.

    Good luck, either way.

    hot rod

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  • Jeff Lawrence_24
    Jeff Lawrence_24 Member Posts: 593
    Warranty issues

    If I get a job that is outside my normal service area, I include in the proposal that is signed by the homeowner a paragraph that states plain and clearly that there will be a trip charge on warranty work. The parts and labor will be covered as specified, but the trip charge will be payable.

    I look at it this way. I can put money in the bid 'up front' and bank it. If there isn't a warranty call on that job, the customer loses. If it's spelled out up front, it's a winner for both parties.

    Just my opinion....

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  • Keith_8
    Keith_8 Member Posts: 399
    Good Point

    Good point about material availablity. Establishing accounts with local venders is a must. We will buy some equipment and material from our at home local venders when we travel but it helps to know where and what is available in a close proximity. Just like at home align yourself with venders you can work with.

    Maybe your trusted vender is also interested in establishing a presense on the Gold Coast?

    I say go for it, the experience will be worth it. Price in the travel expense just as you would factor in any other job related expense, mark it up and submit a proposal. The customer knows you are traveling. Don't bring a negative into the process. They requested your participation, why point out the obvious?


    Keith
  • larry_11
    larry_11 Member Posts: 2
    Gold Cost

    Steve:

    I can Personally tell you the real problems you can run into on the gold coast because I have worked have in Chicago for the last 11 years with a company called Cooling Equipment Service Inc.

    They are a design refrigeration company that built South Water Market... and in the progess food Market it was Kronos, Meals on Wheels, V&V Superimo Foods. Plus they put in the snow melt system at the Congrress Hotel along with many other project in the area. Please check them out at www.coolingequip.com and the you will see some of the projects that Cooling Equipment has done.

    Anyway, the real problem is not the pay, but, the parkng and the time it takes to get to the project.

    I found out if you leave early enough you can make it in time to do the work. We made it in town buy 6:30am to find parking, or we paid the janitor to park illegal and paid off the cop to park in a no parking zone. I really don't konw how far you live or you buniness is to figure out, how long it would take you to get home form the city. But I lived in Lake Zurich which is 35 miles out and it takes me 1 hour to get to the job site. But 3 hours to get home.

    The Supply houses are in the area you just have to figure out if you can leave your parking area and come back? Probabely not.

    Columbia supply, is close to the Gold Coast, and so is, Johnston Supply on Morgan. Drysliker is on Grand Ave. Plus, G&O Thermal Supply on 918 W. Jackson there number is 312 563 1300 and Southside controls is on halsted and grand. I the company numbers can be looked up just as easy as I can look them up.

    The money is great, but is the time really worth it?

    Larry
  • jerry scharf_3
    jerry scharf_3 Member Posts: 419
    remote monitoring

    Steve,

    I would design in a high end control system that allows the maximum amount of remote monitoring of the system. then have a computer at the office who has a "you will be kicked off with no notice at any time" sign on it and check the system weekly for the first year or more. Sometimes you may see a problem even before they realize it. When they call, you stand a much better chance of knowing what you're in for before you leave. The more things controlled by that system, the easier it is on you.

    Remote reprogramming is a more risky thing, but might be nice at times.

    Check with your wife if she'll get grumpy with you being out there for a week or more at a shot. It's much better to plan on staying at a motel and working long days with only parts trips. I personally now hate being on the road for much more than a week at a time.

    Finally, be careful what you wish for. What happens if a number of "great jobs" start popping up out there? Do you want to restructure your business around this kind of work?

    jerry
  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    Different \"Gold Coast\"

    The place I'm refering to is on the Old Mission Peninsula. North of Traverse City Mi about 15 miles. The job is almost worth it just to be able to drive that stretch of road. The views of East and West Grand Traverse Bays range from beautiful to breath taking. There are many spots along the road where you can see both bays over top the vineyards and orchards at the same time.
  • John Ruhnke
    John Ruhnke Member Posts: 882
    I like that!!

    Jeff,

    Great idea!! I am going to think about adding that to my future contracts. This will lower my bid price and not cost me a hidden expense. I have bid on about a dozen jobs out of my area. I always warn the client about the extra expenses ahead of time. I have always added not only for travel but an extra for call backs. This causes a really high estimate. I have gotten two of those projects. One went well, no call backs. The other had about 4 call backs. I did two of the call backs for free. Two were problems relating from circumstances not covered under the warrentee that I was able to charge for.

    I closed about 1 out of 6 projects priced high because they are out of my territory. Which is way below my average. I normally close 50 to 60% of my jobs.

    The lesson learned is even though they say they are willing to pay more, often they won't. They just want you to come over and provide some valuable advice. I now always charge a travel fee on far projects to give the estimate.

    JR

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    I am the walking Deadman
    Hydronics Designer
    Hydronics is the most comfortable and energy efficient HVAC system.
  • lwal
    lwal Member Posts: 12
    supply house?

    I've been looking for an area to open a supply house. Where you located??
  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    Northern Lower Michigan

    Right between Cadillac and Houghton Lake about 7 miles south of M-55. I've been after the Johnstone people to set up a branch in Cadillac for years. The supply house there is pretty much stuck in the "what's the cheapest product in this category" mode. High tech to them and most of their customers is a standard 90% furnace or a boiler with electronic ignition.
  • S Davis
    S Davis Member Posts: 491
    Travel

    Steve,

    If they are willing to pay for us to travel and do the job we are there, we have done one job in Las Vegas well in the mountains outside Vegas, and we are located 60 miles north of seattle.



    S Davis

    Apex Radiant Heating
This discussion has been closed.