Looking for a wall mount boiler

Patrick Powers_2

I am looking to install a wall mount boiler and indirect. I would like some recommendations ex: pros and cons. I wanted to go with the new Buderus, but I gather they are not approved. This installation is going to be in my father in-laws house who is also in the trade so don't hold back. Is Viessman the only way to go or should we consider W-M Ultra or Munchkin.

Weezbo

Depends somewhat on the heat that is required for the home

i like the looks of the Triangle Tube SOLO 100 Prestige.i like the controler and i like the stainless steel heat exchanger..i like the way it looks and how it operates.you might say i am a fan and even though i haven installed the one i have just yet...i like the way it rolls

Mad Dog

Burnham makes a nice wall-hung

does it have to be a condensing boiler? Mad Dog

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Boilerpro_3

Weezbo, tell me all about the Prestige

It looks like the best condensor on the market for general installs. I am seriously making it my new standard "step up boiler". They are also supposed to be coming out with bigger models this fall.
Whats your experience with them so far!

Boilerpro

Constantin

Indeed, a nifty design...

... the "down-fired" HX reminds me a bit of the old GE heaters from yesteryear. If the claims of a self-cleaning HX are true, then this might be the boiler of choice in locations where "Mouse Turds" are a problem.

However, it remains to be seen whether this design is more resistant and/or self-cleaning b/c the intentional restrictions in the HX may cause "Mouse Turds" to get hung up instead of falling through. My guess is that the "Mouse Turd" formation is so microscopic that these HX's are indeed self-cleaning for the most part.

I'd love to hear more about this boiler from those who have used it. I also wonder how much of it was developed by Triangle-Tube and how much is purchased from the outside. For example, the 4-1 turndown ratio on the Prestige seems to indicate that this may be the same burner manufacturer as the one used by HTP, etc. before their switch to Dungs.

Anyway, with the marginal cost of going with a condensing boiler over a non-condensing boiler being as low as it is, gas prices as high as they are, etc. I see no reason not to use a condensing gas boiler in all instances except steam systems. That is, unless your clients are shopping for the lowest installed price combined with the highest operating costs. Some people never learn.

Bob Forand

wallhungboilers.com

Try checking out wallhungboilers.com. This will lead you to Marathon international. Good Luck..Bob

Constantin

Hmmm...

... I found this site less than informative. Plenty of flash, very little substance... and, my pet peeve, stuff "under construction".

Patrick Powers_2

Wall hung boilers

I will look into the Triangle Tube. I have installed a number of Delta Elite oil fired and have had good luck. Thanks for the info never even thought that they would have a wall hung.

Patrick Powers_2

Burnham

It does not have to be condensing. I did think that all wall mounts were though.

Wayco Wayne

Patrick

What capacity are you looking for??? What is the application? what type of heat emmiters? WW

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S Ebels

Viessmann

The Vitodens is in a class by itself. I say this for a number of reasons. Let's talk about them one at a time.

Servicability: It's a fact that a condenser requires more attention than a standard C/I atmospheric boiler. I have not run across any other condensing boiler that is as easy to service as a Vito. Getting at the burner and combustion chamber takes about 3-4 minutes, you don't even have to disconnect the gas line. Simply unsnap the covers, take out 3, 6mm allen screws to swing the gas valve out of the way, then 4 10mm nuts and the inducer/burner assembly is in your hand. You are now looking at nearly every component that requires maintenance. The flame rod, ignitor, burner dome, heat exchanger surfaces and inducer are all exposed for easy cleaning.

Reliability: When you examine how the various makes are designed, the materials used, the simplicity of construction, and the "heft" of critical components the beauty of a Vito is easy to see. Let's take the HX for example. The Vito HX is a rectangular tube, heavy gauge 316Ti, and is radial in design. The water comes in one end, travels the length of the tube and then exits. You would think that little of the HX would condense due to increasing water temp as it travels the length of the tube. This is not the case due to the turbulent flow in the HX. It will condense for nearly it's full length even at supply temps above 140*. This is not the case with some of the condensers on the market. How did the Siver and Orange boys acheive this? Lot's of R&D I guess. All I know is that it works and there are a good number of others on the market that do not condense to this extent. This leads to different stress loads at various points on the HX. Over time, it's easy to see that the more uniform temperature will lead to longer life of this critical component.

The balanced flue design and the self monitoring/compensating gas valve are designed to give good performance over a wide variety of conditions. In other words they are made to perform satisfactorily out in the real world, not just in the lab. If your gas pressure varies, the Vito will self adjust for those changing conditions. This keeps the combustion process clean, obviously resulting in less failures. Especially important on LP gas systems where incoming gas pressure can vary substantially at times.

Control: The Comfortrol unit on the boiler can run two temps, DHW and recirc right out of the box. No need to buy additional pieces from other manufacturers and try to integrate them into the system. Everything just plugs in. It's easy to program for different heating and DHW time periods. It has a lot of other features but I'll just say working with a control that is made for and integrated with the boiler makes a big difference in the performance of the boiler. No mix and match.

Truly sealed combustion: The burner compartment is well sealed from the internal air of the home. Typically, this means the Vito will be seeing nice clean air not contaminated by airborne crud in the house.


Sorry..........I'm getting long winded. I could go on and on but I think you get my drift and I'll stop now.

Weezbo

oki i will see if my scanner will makey the picture

oki iam Ba~ck *~/:)oki ...To answer your now more open question....theres another larger one of these spinning down the line in a signifigantly Larger capacity ...this is just a mere 100,000 BTU's ...and works like a Top i just Got to Spin this one in this summer....i may even ripp out my pinner weil mclain oil fired something ...change from oil to propane i know how ta doit modulation is a slick deal and i wanted to finish the radiant floor anyway :)i honestly think i could sell these things faster than any other boiler ..as for triangle tubes ..Man i have plastered the country side with them and have 8 more on the way i am really interested in thier item called the JUMBO.

Patrick Powers_2

Wayco

We need approx. 200,000 btus. The house currently has all baseboard SF30. We will probably do some radiant in the kitchen and back room which serves as the basement seeing that there is no basement we were considering a wall mount but none of them seem to deliver the proper btus.

So I guess that I am actually looking for a space saving boiler that can be near combustibles.

Patrick Powers_2

S Ebels

Already, spoke to one of my supply houses about Vitos, but we need approx 200,000 btus

Patrick Powers_2

S Ebels

Already, spoke to one of my supply houses about Vitos, but we need approx 200,000 btus

Constantin

And for those that want the original PDF...

... here is a link to the Prestige's specs on the Triangle Tube web site. Why they cannot include a link on the actual product page to this material remains a mystery to me. Perhaps my browser isn't shwoing it...

Ragu

Patrick

Good post. I read last week that wall-hungs will be one of the waves of the future. I've done Trinity and Embassy (Cosmo Gas); both ok, but I know there's better. Have gotten good feedback on most of the stuff mentioned above, but REAL GOOD REVIEWS about BAXI (from Marathon). Reviews were from contractors in Maine who I respect a lot. Winn Aire deals in Baxis. Constantin: I agree about the Marathon Website; kind of leaves me hanging in limbo.

Weezbo

I have seen another product made by triangle tube...

this will replace an entire mechanical rooms 8 boilers and 8 120 indirects in a hotel that has more problems than it needs i want to get one of these JUMBOS for over a year now...tear out the mech room and bang in one of the JUMBOS man they are looking like THE bad boy of alltimes ))

Weezbo

Boiler Pro....

theres so many great things about this boiler and thier future control evolutional upgrades Planned id have to say it is like this, Triangle Tubes were something i had heard about and tried to get here to Alaska.Abuddy of mine owns a driving range in Bermuda and spinns them in around the world near the golf courses of courses:)i hear alot of good things from many sources...Maybe God likes me on Tuesdays ? is it Tuesday?...:)whatever ...:)thing is they are here , like wirsbo .It doesnt really dawn on people the advantage of considering dragging their thinking into this century the same old tune 6 is what is on the agenda yet , i am an optomist and keep pluggin away at every aspect of the WORK.our job is no so easy some times...as you see while i grasp the question my mind seems to rip down huge chunks of the picture in general...specifically the triangle Tubes wall hung has its own bolt on attachment deal ..it is also a company that is real steady,so it invests ducettes in quality for example the stainless steel is a little bit higher grade than many companies products,the designe is looking well,... in the here and now.i am fairly certain you have used heat exchangers...Surgical Stainless...ok indeed many products exist that are quality the manufacturers are seeing the advantages in communicating with the contractors now a days You and i have helped make our communities a better place to live,so, people like us for whatever the reason and figure we are worth hearing out...i have taken a few products and sold my buddies on their quality or ease of operation or this or that and you would think i WORK FOR the company's )) oops. i even try to bribe them out of their presentation models or educational props ..You see something that has worth like this,"... a man seeing a field...."the pearl of great price........... Hot Rod has this HydroLink he is dialing in somewhere...these hydroLinks can combine to one of these Prestiege with a smart planned lay out comming through the back of wall...and the most know it all of all your friends will look at the boiler and hydroLink and say .."That things a joke...That CANT be running this place!"au contraire mon ami..:) the best thing about insulation and vapor barriers applied carefully and copiously is that the heat loss calcs show just what we can expect this or that to actually do...the size house of 4 decades ago is not in the leauge of a home of thier size today...i would say that if where you live in canada there was a 16 1800 sqare foot home built with r 42 walls and 52 ceiling(roof) low -e etc ..insulated slab on grade thick central footings ets cif's etc..the heat loss might indicate a modulating condensing unit of this size would be the ticket. with maybe a dash of domestic priority water chucked in to boot!

S Ebels

So?

The 15-60 goes to 230,000 input. Rated ouput (AFUE) is from 71-205 I think. For a really cool system use two smaller ones. A pair of 8-32's would get you a range of 33K to 224K output. I've seen a couple methods of doing this and it can be really sweet.

Bob Forand

Baxi

If anyone wants or needs any info on Baxi boilers you can e-mail me with your address and I will send you some info. These boilers are sold in the Northeast by different Winwholesale stores. They are sold in VT,NH,ME,and MA.
A group of us just came back from the factory in Bassano, Italy. We will have condensing wall hung boilers from Baxi by the end of May. I will post some pics at a later date of the factory at Bassano...Very impressive...Bob

jerry scharf_3

what a great time of innovation

Looking at yet another interesting condensing HX design, I'm struck by how there is so much room for innovation. I am not sure that this HX is better/worse/comparable to the other HX designs, but the ability to get these into the market and see how they compare in a few years can only make the future generations of products even better.

What do you think that is enabling this brave new world?

A demand for higher efficiency boilers.

Mass manufacturing capabilities that didn't exist before.

Computers to control everything.

More capable computer design and modelling tools.

what else?

jerry

Tony_8

Part of that...

Could be because they sell ONLY to contractors who have been through their certification. It's their form of quality control on the installation end of things. I have no problem with that

The Luna is 105MBTUH output max, 85 %, sealed combustion, modulating 5:1, and very well built.

If their website isn't complete, I'd think it was because they're "busy" with the product.

Weezbo

As an add on, i miss spoke..this appliance is 100K nat gas

and 93 K propane...the propane "burner" is of a higher quality metal venturi ...i remember this, as at the time, my thought was to buy the higher quality gun and convert it to nat gas.

Ricopp

Viessmann condensing boilers

Here's one of my first Vito installs (not quite done at this point yet)... the SIM controls are on another wall

Jason Jepsen

Baxi Luna is a nice unit...

sealed combustion, modulating, QUIET!!!!, pump, fill, exp. tank, p/t all onboard with nice simple controls. I've installed four now, with the fourth in my own home.

I'm looking forward to trying the new Buderus models (condensing). I believe they are approved.

jj

bernie_2

wall hung

The weil-Mclain Ultra which comes in 5 sizes are all fully modulating with a five to 1 turn down ratio. The 80, 105, 155, 230 can be wall hung. All are condensing and depending on the installation have efficiencies from 92 - 98%

bernie_2

wall hung

The weil-Mclain Ultra which comes in 5 sizes are all fully modulating with a five to 1 turn down ratio. The 80, 105, 155, 230 can be wall hung. All are condensing and depending on the installation have efficiencies from 92 - 98%