Un-insulated steam pipes in basement

Chip_5

We recently moved from NY to NJ and our new house has steam heat. The house was built in the late 40's or early 50's. The system is a one pipe steam system with a fairly new boiler. I got a good start learning about steam (having grownup with and always having hot water base board) by purchasing Dan's book "We Got Steam Heat". I turned the pressure down to 1/2 - 1 1/2 lbs, checked the radiators to ensure that are properly pitched and check all of the valves on the radiators. The system is fairly quite and we haven't heard any of the banging, hissing or whistling steam is notorious for. My question is regarding insulation on the pipes in the basement. There is no insulation on any of the pipes in the basement except for a small pipe over the boiler that has the old asbestos insulation (in good shape). About 3/4's of the basement is finished and the heat is provided by the heat produced by the un-insulated steam pipes. Should I be concerned with insulating these pipes and try to come up with an alternate to heat the basement (maybe install a radiator or two above the water line of the boiler), or leave everything alone? Which would be better for the system, efficiency, etc.? Also, when the boiler was replaced by the previous owner in the mid 1990's they used copper pipes for the near boiler piping, should I wait for a problem or look into having someone install iron piping?

Big Ed

Insulation

You mentioned the system is running great with no problems. And the bare supply pipes are heating the basement. I would leave it alone. Also the near boiler copper pipes until it developes leaks.

ScottMP

Insualtion

on steam heating pipes is very important. The steam needs to go to the radiators to function properly. Allowing the steam to cool in the basement piping slows down the output of the system and can lead to balancing issue.

Look close at the piping, you will see evidence of insualtion. It was there for a reason.

Find out where to purchase fiberglass insulation and cover as much as you can in the basement. You system will love you for it. DO NOT use rubberized insualtion from a home center.

Good Luck

Scott

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DaveGateway

Insulation

The poster states that he has a finished basement and the exposed steam mains are providing heat there. He also makes no mention of balancing issues or other problems (copper header aside). Why the slavish devotion to "the book"? What can he possibly gain by insulating the mains, which will in turn require some alternate means of heating the basement? I get this question all the time, and as much as we like to install circulating zones off steam boilers, is anyone prepared to tell this guy he'll recoup the grand or two it'll cost to insulate the mains and add a HW zone in the basement?
I say don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Franklin Jeffers

Insulation Removal

We have just been debating removing a section of our steam pipe insulation in the basement of a four-story building. The basement is quite cold in the winter; it is unfinished as has various drafts around doorways. The rationale for removing a section (not everything) of the steam insulation is to heat up the basement in order to heat up the ground floor apartment directly above. In this apartment you can feel a cool draft coming through the floor on cold days (despite a rug) and the radiator is not fully heating up the space to counteract this either.

Another poster mentioned removing insulation might unbalance the heating - would this be true even if its a small section (6 feet) total piping maybe 25 feet or more? Any other suggestions to solving this problem? (We are also considering insulating the doors and replacing a wooden basement door with a steel one)

michael_15

Removing insulation

there's not much heat emitted in 6 feet of piping. You're probably not going to get more than around 2000-2500 BTU/h out of that (assuming 3.5-4.0 inch pipe), which is roughly equivalent to a 600-watt electric space heater (most of them nowadays come in 1500-watt sizes).

Your best bet is probably get some weatherstripping and seal up the basement. You might also consider insulating the basement ceiling.

The risk of removing the insulation is that the system will suddenly be dealing with more condensate than it is accustomed to, which may cause problems in some instances if the condensate doesn't have a quick-and-easy place to go.

-Michael

Franklin Jeffers

Removing Insulation - Condensate

(apologies again for the question) but when you refer to condensate is that water collecting on the outside of the pipe or the inside? A "sweating" pipe would be a concern because we use that area of the basement that the steam pipe runs over for storage.

michael_15

inside.

Steam gives off its energy by turning back into liquid water. Since both steam and water have to share the same pipe, they were generally sized and pitched to handle the expected amounts of each when the system is running. If suddenly a pipe loses its insulation, the pipe will lose heat at that spot - thus, steam will be turning into water at an increased rate in the pipe.

The worry, then, is that the steam pipes (which may have lost pitch over the years, etc.) cannot handle this increased amount of water flowing in the pipe.

You shouldn't have to worry about any condensation forming on the outside of the steam pipe -- it's hot, after all.

-Michael

chip_4

Insulation

Thanks for the advice, I think I'll go with the "Do nothing" approach until a problem develops (hopefully this will be a long wait). Thanks again.