Wholesaler Relationships

Jed_2

Learn to do it, and free yourself?

Jed

Ragu

How Based?

This may be a touchy one. My primary criterion for using a particular supply house has always been the quality of the in-house heating design person. Product lines, pricing etc. have always been secondary to me. How do you guys approach this issue? Thanks.

Ragu

Jed

Thanks! That's exactly the track I'm on. Teach a man to fish etc. etc.

S Ebels

Some of the most messed up jobs

I have ever seen, came from the desk's of wholesaler "design guys". I have to go back to a job this spring and try to figure out what the blue blazes the wholesaler was thinking when he drew this up. I looked at it briefly last fall and the piping in the boiler room was completely wrong. I found a piping blueprint there and it was installed exactly as drawn. There is no way in the world that it will work. The job is radiant with a little baseboard and a Vitola/Dekamatik running the whole show. The owner said that he finally got heat out of the system after 2 years when the wholesaler sent the plumber back with a bigger pump. To my utter amazement, the circ now driving the radiant side of the system is a 43-75 Grundfos. HOLY WAH! It's a wonder the tubing doesn't jump right out of the cement!

Get yourself educated, ask lots of questions here and never do anything until you understand the why and how. It can be a little tricky but hey, if I can learn this stuff..........


BTW, the saying is this: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he calls in sick at least 6 times a month.

Mark Eatherton1

And free yourself???

More like tie yourself to a desk for a minimum of 8 to 12 hours so you can get the job done.

What ever you do, do NOT ask your wholesaler how much money you should charge for these jobs. They haven't the faintest idea how much money YOU should be charging.

I see so many jobs where a certain unscrupulous wholesaler has told them how much they should charge for their installs, and they (the contractor)end up going broke trying.

I love a wholesaler who keeps abreast of the latest innovations and keeps me posted as to whats new.

I'd dearly love a wholesaler who could hook me up to a computer that would update my pricing at the blink of a mouse click:-)

ME

Weezbo

That is one Huge recirc*~/:)

Yes it is my buddy told me it was expensive and would be sufficent to move water doown to the gas station and heat the road way from here to there , and pump in the btus to this building , however That the Kinda pump WE Wanted you see the little lady is into horticulture and would like to grow peaches year round

Jed_2

I thought of that, Mark

There are usually trade-offs when significant tactical choices are made. Isn't it the same tradeoff when deciding to open your own business or work for someone else? No more punching the clock.

Your other points are well taken, also.

Jed

Darin Cook_3

Some of you guys are asking/expecting alot!!

I am happy as a clam if they just put the right parts in a cardboard box and get the parts to us when we ask.









Darin

S Ebels

You mean........

Your wholesalers actually DO THAT??!!

The local yokel here gets PO'd if we ask them where something is and they have to get out from behind the counter to help us find the stuff! Delivery to a job site via their truck is out of the question. UPS might happen the same week not the same day.

Not all are that way. There are 3 others that I deal with for supplies that will deliver stuff via their trucks but unfortunately they are all over 100 miles away from me and come once a week.

Al Gregory

i used to buy from everywhere. Finnally started getting everything from the same place. They design it right the first time and stand behind what they sell better than anyone I have seen. The prices are less than the big guys and I cant beleive they stock what they do in their small buildings. Richard Austin from South Shore Oil Heat Supply is good guy.

Dave H_2

Know how do do it

Know how do it yourself does not always mean doing yourself always. I'd like guys to know what they are doing, but if you have a good relationship with the designer and trust him, he is providing a service to you.

If you are not sure of the designs, at least you have the knowledge to check.

As ME said, be prepared to become a part time desk jockey when the in-house designer at the wholesaler already is one. Think of him as an employee that you have without giving him a paycheck.

Bill_54

What is the wholesaler's function

Is it really the wholesalers job to design a job or is it the contractors? Can you properly install or service a job that you don't know how to properly design?
If I do not understand an application I will meet with my wholesaler and a manufacturers rep together to properly design the job, that way everyone on the job is in the loop from the get-go. That gives me an understanding of what I am installing and why. It also insures that the job gets installed according to manufacturers specifications.
Many of us look for technical support, design work and layout on projects and then look for the wholesaler with the lowest price. I work with one wholesaler, I know I pay a little bit more but I get the service and technical assistance I need to give my customers a better job at a higher price with better margins. I am able to outsell my competition with the upgrades I offer and I have become more profitable by utilizing the the wholesaler/manufacturers services that I am paying for.
We are all here to make money. We should rely on ourselves as well as our business partners to do the right job for our customers. If we all live by our reputations we should do the right job. I believe showing up on a job site with the distributor and a manufacturer gives my sale more credibility. It shows that I am making an effort that my competition is not to sell the job and make sure the customer is getting the best possible installation. Even if you know what you are doing on a job I think the customer appreciates the extra attention.

Tom_35

Wholesaler capabilities---

In the past 34 years, we have had only 2 wholesalers that provided excellent design services---and one of those was trained by the other.

Suppliers in our area are that---just suppliers, and they usually don't do a good job at that.

Several years ago we were trying to put a job together on an 11,000 sq. foot new home. Rehau had just signed up a new distributor and wanted us to give them a shot at it. I gave them the plans and 2 weeks later called and asked if they had it finished. The guy said that He was still working on the load calculations. I asked if that meant that He was the one doing it and he replied yes. I nearly passed out as he didn't have enough sense to pour pee out of a boot.

I picked up the plans, called the rep from Rehau and told him that they had struck out. I've not sent a design layout to a supplier since.

Tom Atchley
Ft. Smith, AR

ScottMP

YA know

after listening to you guys, I must live in Supplier Nirvana.

I have five suppply house's all within a ten mile radius. I am able to pick and choice which one has the product and the service that best suits each job. One supplier just informed me they will make two trips to my shop if I need it ... Per Day !

I have a supplier who is not that close but highly trained in heating and European products. They have helped me grow. I do my own heat loss and design but larger jobs I will give to them and then go over it.

We can call about six places to find the right product.

I really feel for you guys that are not near a supplier or don't have a quality house to deal with. It really is a symbiotic realtionship.

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ted_9

I've got suppy houses all over the place. There is one big supplier in the area that has inhouse engineers. I stopped using them when I found out a couple of things. One, they look at jobs for customers and either give them the parts lits with a mark up that isnt fit to keep a company healthy. Two, they look at jobs and give them to one contractor. Conflict of interest.

There is one supplier that I deal with and I beleive its the same one that Scott is talking about. They are excellent and they know their products. Mostly European technologies, they know how they function and how to engineer systems. They even provide training and deliveries. Sometime ,I pay a bit more there, but what I get in return more than makes up for it. Btw, I have supplies all around me, but I use this supplier thats over 80 miles away from me.

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

well

the ones near us "do that", at least they get us a box with stuff in it. Usually they can't get all the stuff right, but we do get stuff!

I've talked to some of the design guys at the supply houses around here. It seems like they operate in two modes. Mode 1 is "we have to minimize the cost, at all costs" and they crank out designs that are chopped down to just barely functional (and little to no regard for what is efficient, or good for the boiler) so their contractors can be "competitive". Think single loops out of boilers with dial-a-temp mixing valves and no thermometers to read the final temp setting! Mode 2 is "cost is no object" and they load the design with the most expensive stuff they sell whether it's needed or not.

Granted, design is what we do so I'm a bit of a snob about it, but I like the freedom of charging for design services. I feel for the designers that are under pressure to sell parts. We like to sell parts, don't get me wrong, but charging for the design itself means we don't HAVE to sell parts, and we're free to design what we really think is best.

I think supply houses might benefit from following that example to some degree. I certainly find that people prefer to buy from someone that is helping them out, even if they are already paying for the service, and if not, just make sure the design fee is appropriate and reasonable.

I would say when dealing with supply house design guys, you HAVE to know how to do what they are doing. Then you can farm it out to them, and tell them in part what you want, review their work, and modify it as your job requires with confidence. If you rely on them completely, you will never know what you could have put in, for what cost, for what benefit, and you'll be installing cookie-cutter systems. One size does not fit all, IMHO.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Weezbo

With a stick )

sorry... i asked the local big time supply house if he would hire on a friend of mine who is an engineer who actually know how to doit and do engineering...nah...we cant afford that...my thought is what the guy does for a living he knows how to make work. so now hes off in China and doing his thing...too bad the short sightedness is so readily available in the world...