Air Separators

Ragu

Been using Spirovents and B&G AES models; talking 1 1/4 to 2" pipe range. What do you guys use? Any opinions about Caleffi?

Larry_10

Like em ...

also the size of the larger you go thing has taco's looking kinda cool just dont be wanting to throw a wrench on the air eliminator to change it out

Ken_8

The best air separator in the world

is the one built into the boiler block!

Air is removed easiest by finding the place where:

1) the water is the hottest

2) the water velocity is slowest

3) it can be trapped.

The most expensive, best engineered air separator/purger on earth will never be as good as the boiler block for capturing air. Having said that, if the boiler you use does not have that baffle and built in air separator cast in or machined in, a double tap bushing can create it.

If however you have no such cavity, space or area within the block - by all means use whataver works.

I am not a fan of any of the brands you mentioned. Not because they don't work, but simply because any purger works. Why not buy the simplest (and usually the cheapest) one?

Once I started "pumping away," I realized the air problems were best addressed by design of the near boiler piping far more than the cost and claims of the separator/purger manufacturer(s).

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Tom M.

I agree with Ken.

It is also the point of lowest pressure when the circulator starts up. I put the expansion tank on the return so that the boiler/air eliminator is between the circ and the tank. I use a 1/2" Spirotop on boiler replacements because if the vent does leak 10 years down the road it will make a mess of the boiler.

Tom M.

Mark Eatherton1

I use...

a good ol' air scoop. Been working great for me for 30 plus years. IMHO, the MBR (micro bubble resorber) type of air eliminators were introduced to address a specific problem. Air in suspension (DUH). It has been my experience, that if the circulator is placed such that it pumps AWAY from the PONPC, air is NOT a problem, and the more expensive air seperator is not required. I'm sure there are numerous wholesale suppliers who would argue contrary to that if you ask them, but what motive would they have??

ME

Ragu

Piping Away

Thanks guys. All of your points make sense to me. I've been piping away since my first B&G seminar; it's second nature at this point. I think I've stayed with the fancy units mostly because I'm usually tight for straight runs of piping (18 pipe diameters of straight run for an air scoop was drilled into my head early on). Mark, you brought up: "Wholesalers". New thread. Thanks.

jeff_51

Spirovent and nothing but

I used my first spirovent back around '86. It had inserts cause you couldn't get em with anything but euro threads at the time. Have used notheing else since. When you set up for forced bleeding and bleed when you fill, you will never have to go back. Not talking radiators here of course. I have never found anything that takes out air faster or better

hr

I like

the basic cast iron scoop on primary loops. As long as the pipe size is correct and the velocity is in spec. Above 2fps and below 4fps.

There are times when it helps to have a second air scoop. A classic example is a VS injection mixing arrangment.

It seems air is reluctant to cross that small tube, thermal drop, injection piping bridge. Maybe the low flow rate or something? Air and water tend to part company at flows below 2 fps.

I find a second air scoop, often a smaller diameter spiro vent, is a nice addition to this piping/ mixing method, on the secondary loop piping.

hot rod

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Ragu

Hot Rod

That's a good thought about the bridge piping creating a need for a second scoop. Would you have the slab circ. pumping into the Spirovent? Thanks.

hr

Since the temperature isn't

all that relevant in a low temperature radiant zone, I put the spiro on the return from the zone. As long as flow is assured on your flush and power purge, the micro bubbler will handle the rest.

No question in my mind the Spiro micro bubble concept out performs a basic scoop. That mesh or grid just catches smaller bubbles quicker.

Watch the Spiro demo at a trade show sometime. They really should have a cast scoop next to it to show the difference. Are you listening Spirotherm?!!

Scoops work, they just take longer. I want the air and noise gone before I back out of the driveway

A vent on the boiler alone, only works if there is a wide spot in the road somewhere. That's not to be found on the condensors I currently work with.

Air and high head pumps (common to condensors) are a very bad mix. It (air) needs to be dealt with quickly in those small diameter, high speed, tube HXers. Cavitation is not a good thing and high head circs operating at low fill pressures and air are ideal welcome mats for it.

I am intrugued by that Caleffi HydroLink. It could satisfy my purger lust, and be an ideal insulated, compact PS, labor saving devise. I need some more time to get familar with it. Before i shot myself in the foot as I have in the past

hot rod

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Dan_16

I also really like the spirovent. Money well spent and there will be no air.

Weezbo

*~/:) Some things you say make me think i have been ...

psychically eves dropping on your conversations with God :)maybe we are all in clear site of one another in his eyes and he sends the messages to one and hope the rest pick up on it slightly off topic i am trying to get into the new chevy sales boiler room here that they lashed up last summer..there are many many remote headers ,snowmelt,air handelers and i need to search the grounds for ac and take a look at thier mixed air and speed drives ....i suppose they have waste oil burners as well...i Think they may have natural gas and if so i would like to see that they dont have condensing modulation Be-Cause not effect.

BillW@honeywell

Don't forget the Supervent...

Honeywell's offering is the only one that has the patented stainless-steel microbubble seperator. It's available in sweat, NPT or universal fittings and available from 3/4 inch all the way up to 8 inch flanged monsters for commercial use. The new, solid float can not waterlog. If you haven't used our product in a while, check it out. Available from any hydronic-oriented Honeywell distributor.

Joe Mattiello

Taco 4900 series

Taco, Inc.
Joe Mattiello
Technical Service Technician
joemat@taco-hvac.com
401-942-8000 X 484
www.taco-hvac.com

Joe Mattiello

Taco 4900 series

Taco recently introduced the new 4900 series air seperator with pal rings that purge micro bubbles entrained in the water on start up, and maintains the system. For your conveience I have attached the catalog information.

Taco, Inc.
Joe Mattiello
Technical Service Technician
joemat@taco-hvac.com
401-942-8000 X 484
www.taco-hvac.com

S Ebels

The Vortech

Is about the best small scale knockoff of a B&G Rol-air that I've seen. They do work well Joe.

S Ebels

The best air purger in the world

Will not overcome a poor piping job IMHO. Set 'em up right and a regular old CI scoop with a decent vent on top will do very nicely thankyou.

I also agree that the boiler itself makes a good "air scoop" for the reasons Ken mentioned. In fact, if you look at the piping diagrams in Viessmann's manuals for their traditional boilers, the only air scoop/vent they show is the one on their safety header. The exp tank is usually shown piped directly to the boiler through one of their convenient tappings.

As usual Viessmann does it better!(wink wink, bait bait)