Technician motivation

John R. Hall

It's no secret that Gen Xers have higher expectations for their careers than many of us did starting out (yes, journalists have an even tougher road to hoe, salary-wise). Yet so many young people expect to "have it all" right away without toiling in the field and learning a craft. And you know what, who can blame them? Do you see what kids at McDonald's are starting out at these days? $7-$8 an hour. I know contractors who are starting their apprentices out at that wage and then bumping them up a buck a year until they are making $15 after 4-5 years. Whoppee.

Problem is, how are you going to pay top wages when you charge an hourly rate that barely covers your overhead? Yet that's what some contractors do in order to keep busy and keep a few bucks in the checkbook. It's a vicious cycle -- if you don't charge a fair price you can't pay a fair wage -- and the kids take up copy machine repair or valet parking.

I'm open to any solutions. We are lacking 20,000 techs a year and we need to show kids that HVACR is a great career with a lot of opportunities for growth -- as long as contractors know what their costs of doing business are. Sadly, you don't learn those costs if you are chasing jobs all day, playing service tech and hoping that the kid you are paying $8 an hour is a diamond in the rough, doing the job because he LIKES it.

Thanks, just my monthly vent (even with male hormones).

Keith_8

Apprentices

John,
I would like to know where I can find some of those $8.00 per hour kids. There aren't any knocking down my doors.

It's our collective respocibility to be truthful about what we are asking these young people to take on as a career. Both the good and the bad.

The good news is that our job's can't be shipped overseas. You make a good living and can be fairly independant after you earn your stripes.

The bad news is the conditions are not ideal.

Something tells me that the word is going to get out to these kids that technology has finally arrived to the HVAC field. With energy prices skyrocketing there is no reason why the high tech/high efficiency stuff isn't flying off the shelves.

Lets put it this way if the smaller shops don't get their act together and start charging for their services and paying their men a good salary and benifits then the big boys will gobble up anyone worth while and the game is over.

Go work for mongo mechanical and be their such and such specialist.

As a small sized commercial shop we offer good bennies, good wages and good working conditions. Any body looking?

Keith

Ragu

Out Trade

I read a statement from the Maine Oil Dealers' Association last night: "Oiheat techs are among the most respected of the trades". I just do not believe that, although an experienced tech with a good knowledge of advanced piping, controls strategy and combustion SHOULD be highly respected. My experience has shown me that the large companies tend to bring a tech along to the point where he can do cleanings and "No Heat" calls without supervision, and that it what his job entails. Period. It doesn't help matters any that these guys refer to themselves as "Soot Suckers". That creates a very negative self-image, and that gets into the subconscious of the general public. Once a prospective customer sees one of my installations, they understand that there is much more to our trade. You are right, it IS our collective responsibility to charge correctly for our knowledge and skill.

clammy

work ethics

It seems no young guys are really getting into the trades and if they have gone to a trade school they are dis enchanted by the wages they are told they will recieve and the wages they get when they start out but every one starts out low and the other promblem is not many have good work ethics when left alone they slack .On another note when i started out i carried the mech tools,ladders and ran out all the extension cords and at the end of the day i did the reverse ask a newbie to do thast today and you get a blank stare or bad attuiude i'm not saying that all newbies are thaT way but it sure seems to be in general and as suprising as it may seem most larger co don't really give any training it seems most are just slam it in and cash the check i see way to many high end houses with the worse mechinical systems thought up and no attention to detail at all it seem that as the old saying goes sheet rock covers a multuitude of sins and alot of poor quality in alot of cases there is no one to blame except builders and GC's and i know i do do some work for both but alot of times where there some money for mech they give me a shout but other wise i only hear from them after promblems arise as of now i only have 1 GC i do work for but not everything he does only the tough one's and ones he wants no promblem in the end .As for pay i haven't seen a new guy to the trades work for less then 10 to 12 a hour and that with no tools and no work ethics and barely a brain too boot .As to where the hvac industry is going i don't have any ideas not to make it all sound negative there are alot of small co that offer high quality but they seem few and far between and alot of contractors will say they do it all but most of there work is hack and they are only in it for quick coin soory if it all sounds negetive none of it is meant to be only my thoughts about whats going down . peace clammy

J.C.A._3

Thanks John.

This is a great subject for us all to ponder.

I was VERY fortunate to begin my training at a small oil company, with the thinking I would become an installer.I did my share of "grunt work" and parts runs, but was being taught the hows and whys when I asked. I had great techs. teaching me, but they were taught the same old ways it has/was been done for the last....years.

When I took the initiative and started reading some of the trade mags and heating related books, I came to the realization that I was being taught the WRONG way to do things.(But this is the way we've always done it sydrome!)

I tried to show the powers that were the proper and trouble free way to do it and was shot down at every turn. Luckily, someone got me mad enough to go out and find a company that would let and teach me the way to do it right.

I started at slave wage, but showing the passion for it made the bumps in pay come quite fast, according to all the whiners I listen to these days.

I'm MORE than willing to teach anyone anything I know, but they have to show that they deserve to know it!Whinning and bi&^$%#@ about not making any money,showing up half lit from the night before and slacking off,ISN'T the way to learn from me. Show me some ability and apptitude and I will fill your head . This I promise.

I now am learning lots about the business side, and totally agree with your statements about being ABLE to pay the new hires a decent wage, but in turn...don't they need to show the company that they want to learn the trade? Demanding journeymans wages for apprentice(or less) quality won't help the business do any better. Getting someone who wants to be working as we do, will be apparent in short order.

I like the "trial period" approach. Give them a wage, and a timeframe. If they are showing promise in the timeframe, work on a scheduled pay raise plan. As long as they keep doing the job and learning more, they are worth more to the company.(Of course, the company needs to give them the incentive and opportunity to learn more). DID YOU OWNERS READ THE LAST LINE ???

I've been lucky so far . All the guys we have working with us now show promise and hunger for learning the trade. Could be we are just lucky, but I think a trainee treated well will be more inclined to stay in the trade, JMHO. Chris

B. Tice

careers

I don't think I would encourage people to do this. Poor working conditions, lay-offs, (especially this year, alot of companies getting rid of Guys- very slow ) poor pay. The whole business seems to be going "wal-mart".....cheap. cheap, cheap.It seems the generation that appreciated quality is disapearing.This is probably the lowest point of the business I've seen in 20+ years in it. Very disheartening. Those of you in areas where you are busy and selling high end, take advantage of it while you can.

Boiler Guy

Well said Chris

We experience the same problems up north of 49.
It just seems to me everyone today wants to be a "specialist". How do you get to be that specialist? The only way I know is to start at the the bottom and learn. Read, study, observe, make mistakes and ask lots of questions.

After 35 years in the trades I still take advantage of any training opportunity I am able. Unfortunately many of the younger generation do not share that attitude. In my opinion we live in a world with "instant gratification syndrome". Very few bother to take time to teach, mentor and train. On the other side of that coin even fewer want to take the time to apply themselves to really learn. In many situations too many things have "come to easy" for them which has trained them to look for the easiest solution.

With the cost of everthing high as it is, remuneration has become the driving force. Offer too little you can't attract good people, offer what they want, they're either not worth it or you can't sustain the cost.

Yes, the workforce ethic has sure changed over the years, and not necessarily for the better. JMHO

Dick_3

apprentices

After struggling with helpers and apprentices we hired off the street that never seemed to work out for many years. We tried several apprentices from the local pipefiterrs union.

The union apprentices seemed more serious about learning the trade because they seem to feel they have a good future in front of them with decent benefits and wages; and, go to school 2 nites a week for 5 years. Each six months they get a small raise, if they're working out we keep them. If you price the jobs correctly, these guys are affortable and porfitable for our small residential/light commercial shop.

If a guy is a problem or becomes a problem, showing up late or hungover, attitude, poor work ethic, no potential, etc., we fire or lay him off and there is no negative fallout. This has only happened twice in the last 3 years.

Several of these apprentices were employed for several years and have become dependable and profitable journeyman for our company.

If you treat your helpers the way you like to be treated, employ them with steady employment, and allow them/teach them the trade, you'll be suprised at the results. Look at the kids over in Iraq, they're getting the job done. Sometimes I think it's us, not the generation X kids causing the problems. Treat the kids poorly and get poor results.

The trade is profitable if you play the game properly and fair.

Mad Dog

Motivation is in evidence when..................................

Momma's due with a bambino, the rent is due, and taxes are due. These things have motivated all generations...this one won't be that much different. Mad Dog

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dconnors

Here's the dirt from a New york Perspective.....

I was an instructor in the Adult Ed. program. I attended career nights at schools. The Votec programs generally get about 5 minutes to promote the trades then they spend the other 1 hour and 25 minutes or so promoting college. No wonder we have a surplus of hamburger pushers in our youthful workforce. Maybe if the schools did their jobs a little more diligently we wouldnt have such a shortage. It sure prompted me to get out of a program with little support. My friday vent.

Wayco Wayne_2

A good subject for me today

I am a small contractor who does residential hvac and radiant heating. I have been training an apprentice for 1 year now. I have spent the money to send him to night school for his journeymans license and various seminars and classes when they are availible. We also sometimes start the day with a lesson on control wiring on a practice control wiring board I designed and built. I also buy all of his tools for his truck so he can be prepared for what ever work he faces during the week. I also provide uniforms. Today he starts the day saying that I'm not giving him enough benefits and so on. Put me in a bad mood all day. I'm literally spending thousands to train him and he can't wait to go to work for someone else and get the big bucks and the great benefits for the big companys. Makes me feel like a sucker for supporting him. I talked to my daughters girl friend and she is going to school for nursing and getting her classes paid for by a clinic she is working at, and she has plans to leave as soon as the classes are through to work for someone else. Where is the loyalty? They expect so much. They take it for granted. Feeling unappreciated in MD. WW

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J.C.A._3

Wayne,

You also bring up a great point. I know that the person you train will either find himself to be a "company guy", or be your competition eventually.

It's a balancing act isn't it? You want the right people working for you, but also have to think about the long term losses/benifits. You can hire someone who will do what you say, except the weekly paycheck and work WITH you to build and make the company stronger OR, teach someone all that he can handle and turn him into your competition. This is the ultimate catch 22.(I like the "one legged man in the butt kicking contest" scenario!)

Should you keep someone around who DOESN'T show initiative, by furthering their own self worth and training, and have them loose the passion for the trade? Do YOU or the rest of the crew make this person think that they have reached the pinnacle of their usefulness and abilities ? If they are doing a great job and moving forward, are you compensating them properly ? This is where the business mind has to assess and make BIG decisions.

Some of your employees WILL become the adversary, but sometimes that isn't such a bad thing. You could have to harbor someone who doesn't want to learn anymore, and effectively become a "parent" to them.(they may NEVER go away!)

I guess it depends on the individual. I'm just playing Devils advocate here, and trying to get everyone to think about the original post. If someone enters the trade I say give the timeframe approach IN WRITING, and make it stick.

If they work WITH you and do all the right things, the way you want them done, it's a bonus. If they do a great job and fight your business plan and principals, maybe things aren't so great. Again, the business mindset at work. Chris

Dick_3

Wayco Wayne,

Your young apprentice, what is his wages and benefits?

Garett

Wayne,
The loyalty went to the same place the pensoin fund and the long term employment went.

Kids these days hear all about "the man" screwing their employees and are now only looking for the short term gain.

By the way, you sound like your doing right by this kid and hopefully it will pay for you in the long run. Just try to keep the door open to him if he takes another job. That is if he leaves in an appropriate manner(ie. two weeks, no badmouthing the company).

Garett

Ragu

Training The Competition

> Contractor magazine this month has a great

> article. "Quit the school of hard knocks." I like

> the where they talk of not fearing losing trained

> empolyees and how every investment has risk,

> weighed to your "potential" returns. Sounds good,

> but the truth is for small shops, it's a burden.

> My past employer would never hire anyone who

> needed basic training, you got plenty of

> experience as you moved on, but that training was

> whatever you put into it, not him and if you got

> smarter, you moved up, if not you moved out. (Pay

> for performance) The rewards were great and the

> support was there, he just wasn't going to foot

> the bill. I don't blame him? Why should the

> employer, a hospital isn't going to send you to

> medical college, you go to college and then you

> get a job? Advanced training is usually and often

> supplied by the distributor for a small fee, the

> employer should pick up this tab (I think)

Ragu

Training The Competition

> Contractor magazine this month has a great

> article. "Quit the school of hard knocks." I like

> the where they talk of not fearing losing trained

> empolyees and how every investment has risk,

> weighed to your "potential" returns. Sounds good,

> but the truth is for small shops, it's a burden.

> My past employer would never hire anyone who

> needed basic training, you got plenty of

> experience as you moved on, but that training was

> whatever you put into it, not him and if you got

> smarter, you moved up, if not you moved out. (Pay

> for performance) The rewards were great and the

> support was there, he just wasn't going to foot

> the bill. I don't blame him? Why should the

> employer, a hospital isn't going to send you to

> medical college, you go to college and then you

> get a job? Advanced training is usually and often

> supplied by the distributor for a small fee, the

> employer should pick up this tab (I think)

Ragu

Wayne

I guess we just do the best we can in these situations. If the kid does leave, at least you know that he has had good training; that says a whole lot of positive things about YOU.

Wayco Wayne_2

Thanks for the posts

I am feeling better than earlier. I don't ususally get angry so early in the day. Lifes too short. This disloyalty is so innocent. It's spoken of so matter of factly. "Oh yeah, as soon as I finish school I'm going for the big bucks somewhere else." Instead of, "How can I make where I'm at a success for me, and the company where I work?" If I am smart I will begin training someone else soon and not put all of my eggs in one basket. No sense getting angry about the risk. Getting back to the beginning of the post I've got to learn to charge enough so I can compete in the wage war. Not easy for a small contractor, but necessary. WW

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Hole drilling Noobie

heres inspiriation from an apprentice...

I started my career about 5-6 months ago last October actually and john when you stated that the ones of my generation want it all and fast, that was an absolute reflection of myself when i started in the buisness. but everyday i left the shop or a jobsite and was upset for not uderstanding something so did the expectation. but i have to tell you and all that i truly love the work. i mean even though ive only been working for such a short period of time i have been pushed to the limits. you know the work that the older getlemen of the trade just hate doing or even hires from temp agencies to avoid doing that sought of labor. and still call it youth or whatever you want i come out feeling better than i went in. knowing that ive contributed to someones comfort is rewarding in itself and im sure that you can say the same for yourself. when you go on that no-heat call wherew theres children in the house or an elderly woman, the handicapped etc... at 2:30am and you get her boiler or furnice going its a wonderful feeling im sure. you walk in there a mechanic and out a hero. i do radiant heating and im surrounded by what i like to call the best in the buiness. with a considerate and great employer not to mention a partner who not only work with me everyday but teaches oil heating at boces aswell. today i attended the introduction that was hosted by a gentlman named mike on the new tn4 control by Tekmar. bottom line is even if the ones of my generation are being payed 9$ an hour dont ignore the fact that they entered the field possibly for the love. just provide them with the proper learning environment and im sure youll chip your diamond in the ruff.------------------------Santos

larry_9

My 2 cents worth

Frist I very aggrevated and upset about this link. And the insinuations. I am not form generationX, however, I have also work my way up through the ranks.

Frist I wanted to learn the trade but no one wanted to pick me up as an apprentice. So I went to trade school "paying my own way" after two years of school, twice a night, fall and spring semesters I finely got pick up by an employer. After a year of working hard for him and putting in 10 hours for 8 hours pay I move on to a different contractor. By the way he gave me a shining letter of recomendation. I did move out of state which my loyality would not allow me to work for someone eles in his territory.

I spent the next two year investing into my education while working for a union contractor before They put me into the union which, allowed me to take advantage of the union training. They did however, allow me to take Advantage of factory training through the supply houses and RSES programs so it wasn't a total loss. But it was on my own time, even if I had to give up a days work to get the training. I did not get payed to go to training classes. But I took advantage of them. Then I spent the next ten years going to advanced jouneryman courses, and if the union or company didn't provided the courses I wanted to take I went to the local collages in chicago to learn what I wanted to know.


Now looking back I have over 14 years of education, and a desire to learn more. At that time I really wanted to learn so I spent more time working than I was getting payed for but that was the price of the education.

Then the real problem arose, we gained a new manager who he thought he could replace everyone, there's a 1000 guys just waiting to take your place. Every job was a looser, we were all scum. Just to prove a point I had a nine month job, which I put in 10 hours a day 6 days a week just to see how big of a looser we would have, lost hugh money on it. Think about it I only brought people onto the job when I need help. I built the mechincal rooms by myself two rooms one west and one east 4" welded pipe 2 1.5 btu boilers cooling towers revese returns heatpump system 270 rooms. Lost money on the Job!!!! How? I don't know, but, that is when I decided to quit. I was under the impression that I had to pay the previllage to work there tax. Now I am looking for a good company to work for, what did I find out now!!!!


Their are many contractor that are willilng to hire me... but I don't have the license or schooling they want, noooo but they are more than willing to hire me on as an apprentice to start all over again. Even thought I have all my verication of school and my steamfitters/pipefitters joureymens card. Why? Because the state I moved to is licensed and now I am to stupid to do the work here in Minnesota because the code are "different". Yah, right that is why everyone in Illinios can't do any of the refrigeration, pipefitting, welding or plumbing in the state, local 597,130 and 281 call up all the Minnesotans to build all the co-gerneration plants, hydronic heating or steam boiler plants, in all the schools manufactering or any other place in the state. Watch out Illinios you stupid morons Minnesotan known-it-alls are coming down to do our jobs. Because we don't have strict enough codes. Let's see how much gas tight or ward flex they can run down there, or how much greenfeild they can run outside instead of sealtight?

Now, I work for a contractor who thinks I should be at his beck and call. He pays me but doesn't give me any work only if his cheap guys can do it or fix it. So most of the time I spent at home getting about 15 to 20 hours a week. What's that? Contractors want you to know everything do everything fix it in ten minutes and then send you home for the rest of the day. Yet YOU ALL WANT US TO BE LOYAL TO YOU YET YOU CAN DROP US LIKE A HOT POTATO!!!!! Where is the loyality back? Go to school pay for it yourself then pay the tax the tax for working for you!!! It's a two way street I'll work for you Hard!!! But don't lie to me either.

Larry