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asme

markel
markel Member Posts: 3
I'm bidding on a job for a municipality in N.J. it's a community pool facility with showers & a small kitchen
. There's a cast iron boiler with a shell type heat exchanger for the domestic hot water. I'd like to seperate it & install a new cast boiler for the heating, & a coppertube type boiler with a storage tank for the domestic water. Does anyone know how I can find out the requirements for storage tank sizing, or any other componants that me be required to have asme ratings? Also, there are two 12 by 12 masonary chimneys side by side each other. The original installation had both flues of the commercial boiler tied into one chimney. do you think I might have a problem if I utilize both chimneys for the seperate systems? I.E. one chimney drawing air during operation of the opposite boiler? any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. thanks , Markel

Comments

  • Ken_8
    Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640
    Partial answers:

    1) Storage tank sizing is offered by most, if not all manufacturer's of indirects. We use the "PLUS" system from W/M to size their indirects, which also are called "PLUS." The calculations are based on ASHRAE standards and simplified to be accurate and easy to do.

    2) ASME "ratings" here in our Garden State are obscure items. I find we use less and less ASME expansion tanks, indirects and like-minded vessels because the ASME requirement is so confusing and almost impossible to enforce. If you know any of the Hartford Steam Boiler Inspectors, or call their services, they can amplify and define for you what exactly may occur if you don't (or do) quote ASME certified vessels - regardless of purpose.

    3) Being a self-proclaimed NJ code "geek," I know of nothing that would preclude you from using a cleaned chimney as a makeup air supply. However, the square inches of opening must meet code - unless a sealed combustion boiler is chosen. A rain cap would be in order IMHO, but little else.

    Could you share what exactly is wrong with what's already there? I cannot imagine not discussing condensing equipment for both heating and bathing. One boiler with two zones would be my first choice for cost, profit and designs.

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  • Alan R. Mercurio_3
    Alan R. Mercurio_3 Member Posts: 1,617
    How cool is that?

    A Contractor from the same area helping a contractor in his own backyard.

    Kudo's to you Ken! :)

    Your friend in the industry,
    Alan R. Mercurio

    www.oiltechtalk.com
    Your friend in the industry,



    Alan R. Mercurio



    www.oiltechtalk.com
  • markel
    markel Member Posts: 3


    KEN, THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE.... THE EXISTING CAST IRON BOILER IS CRACKED & LEAKING... THE POWERS TO BE SAY THE BULK OF THE DOMESTIC HOT WATER IS USED DURING THE SUMMER SEASON , & THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO SHUT IT DOWN IN THE WINTER MONTHS, WHILE MAINTAING HEAT IN THE BUILDING.. THEIR THOUGHTS WERE TO MAKE 2 SYSTEMS. THE CHIMNEYS I TALKED ABOUT WERE BOTH BUILT IN THE 60'S, HOWEVER, THEY ONLY CUT THE BREECHING INTO 1 CHIMNEY. THE OTHER HAS NEVER BEEN USED. PLAN IS TO INSTALL A SMALLER CAST IRON BOILER FOR HEATING, USING EXISTING CHIMNEY. INSTALL A COPPER TUBE BOILER WITH A STORAGE TANK FOR DOMESTIC HOT WATER, UTILIZING THE 2ND (NEVER USED) CHIMNEY FOR DRAFT. I WAS CONCERNED THAT BEING SO CLOSE IN PROXCIMITY, THAT THE OPERATING BOILER MAY CAUSE POOR DRAFT WHEN THE OTHER BOILER STARTS UP. & I'M CONCERNED ABOUT LITIGATION IF ASME CODES ARE NOT MET...
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,460
    domestic sizing

    I have used AO Smith sizing charts for years, they work well when familiar. What i would do is call the AO Smith rep in your area and have them run a sizing program they have, you will need # of shower heads, laundry facilities. Flow rate of showers. misc. loads. They will probably size off the 1 hr peak demand due to pools usually go in schedules and a load of people may shower at same time. Good luck.
  • Ken_8
    Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640
    The problem I run into all the time is;

    There are the state codes (NJ-Uniform Construction Codes) which embraces the various adopted codes, like, NSPC, IMC, and a host of related building codes. These are the codes you and I have to know.

    However, there are "other" codes we are not very aware of. These codes are basically insurance codes and embedded in an obscure NJ rule-set called, "Boilers, Pressure Vessels and Refrigeration" from The NJ Department of Labor, Labor Standards and Safety Enforcement, Office of Boiler and Pressure Vressel Compliance, P.O. Box 392, Trenton, NJ 08625-0392.

    NJ adopted CSD-1 a few years ago. It is only now being enforced. The enforcement arm is NOT the local, municipal plumbing inspector, mechanical inspector or fire inspector. It is in fact someone from the State of NJ boiler inspection services that makes that call - and/or Hartford Steam Boiler, Kemper or Chubb.

    So, we are forced to obey and account for not only UCC regs, but Boiler and Pressure Vessel Compliance regs as well!

    Most of these codes are only for commercial heating (schools, municipal pools, apartment houses, office spaces, anc commercial property of any sort - or size.

    This NJ Pressure Vessel... code is actually a compendium of other codes e.g., ASME, ANSI and API.

    Confused?

    Welcome to the club. As always, "When two conflicting codes are applicable, always use the more stringent one." And there are MANY conflicts between these two jurisdictions.

    Too many!

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  • Jack_21
    Jack_21 Member Posts: 99
    This is an ideal application

    for Rinnai on demand water heaters. What fixtures are there. How many sinks (one, two three bay) what kind of dishwasher and operating temp, etc. Anyway give me a fixture load and I can size it for you. In about two weeks we will have a CD and web based sizing program for our units.

    One of the advantages of the on demand type is the ability to shut-down and drain without causing corrosion problems on a tank (glass lined tank...that is) because they are all copper.

    Let me know if I can be of assistance. BTW, I'm the rep in New England
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