Something from the other side of the pond...

Constantin

... naturally, visiting basements was as important as visiting friends and family. Here is one oil-fired radiant heat system. The first thing that strikes you is the size of the oil tanks that people use. This two-family home has 3720 liters of oil capacity. Oil companies in Germany upcharge heavily for multiple fill-spouts, so this system features one fill for 6 tanks.

Since this was a retrofit, it made a lot of sense to choose tanks that fit through doors, etc. the way these Roth tanks do. Note the containment wall that was there for the previous oil tank. Talk about triple redundancy!

I have yet to understand why having individual fill pipes for each tank is better than having one feed branch into 6 tanks....

Constantin

The expansion tanks are also funny animals...

.... maybe it's that the Europeans have to do their expansion tanks differently from the US, but I found a side-mounted connection on these tanks to be curious. On the other hand, the mounting feet are a nice touch and the fill nozzle is still in the same location...

It's also interesting to see how PVC pipes are an acceptable means of wire management. The US seems much more oriented towards BX, whenever such protection is desired/mandated. Also note the nice Propress work and the lack a of downward leader for the pressure valve.

Constantin

I also liked the contrast between the old and new...

... here, the propress clearly shows that close-quarter installations in painted environments don't have to be messy. The old systems' soldering job scarred the wall a bit. Not a problem when the house is constructed of concrete, I suppose.

I find the insulation around the safety header pretty ironic, considering how little insulation there is elsewhere down there. Given that they don't want to heat the basement, I'm surprised they'd let all that radiative surface do it for them.

Constantin

The heating zones...

... neat stuff. One large radiant circuit and a couple of panel rads keep the place comfortable. Note the tiny size of what I believe is a motorized 3-way valve... Nifty. Also, it was the indirect that was heated with the flat plate HX, IIRC. No driveway melting systems...

Constantin

... and the \"rocket engine\"...

Labeled as made by MAN, which to me was always a engine company, not a burner manufacturer. It's not clear to me yet what this burner can do. The Wolf boiler it was attached to indicates a 16-22kW heating capacity which may either indicate a range of nozzle choices or that the burner can modulate.

Note the electrical disconnect, the colorful cover, and the status lights and disconnect switch mounted on the top of the unit where homeowner and technician alike can easily read them. Neat.

bob_44

Nice Pix

Thanks Constantin for taking the time. I always appreciate it when world travelers like you an Ken bring this stuff home and share it. Is that all you could find, one basement? bob

Unknown

Our good friend Prof. Mark Eatherton AKA , ME,,,

would not approve;-)

After all the tank is mounted sideways. He don't like that too much.

Very interesting photos Constantin. There is a better way. We must embrace this technology and further refine it. ;-) I'll look again closely soon.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Weezbo

Howdy Constantin....thats a cool looking burner...

thanks for posting some of the boiler and piping i had some pics of a boiler room a young german guy lashed up he was here a few years ago visiting my buddythorsten and his wife andrea..i have misplaced the pics they were of a viessmann and it looked pretty sharp:) the little blue space engine at least looks like it belongs in this century thanks again and welcome home

Darin Cook_3

Constanin

I notice that all cushioned hangers were used to support the piping. Zero noise transmission into the structure. One thing that always amazed me is that no matter where I have been in Europe, they do not hide the piping in the living areas of the home like we do over here. Is there a limit to how much oil they can store in the basement? I am assuming that there is a up charge for multiple spouts to keep the possibility of fuel spills down.









Darin

Jimmy Gillies

Darin.

We try to hide all our pipes in living area's here in the UK. The only pipes coming through the floor to a radiator.

Also our oil tanks are plastic and sit in the homeowners garden and about 1200Ltr in size - just wee things. The thinking there is with loads of oil companies out there, you can get oil(well most boilers run on kero)at a couple of hours notice, even in the remote highlands of Scotland.

Constantin, I think you'll find the Man burner can be 'range rated' with a nozzle change and ajustment etc. Lots of oil boilers installed here in the UK are like that.

Thanks for the pictures.
Regards.
Jimmy Gillies (Scotland)

Constantin

Different House, Different System

This is a heating system in a new townhouse. They have no chimney ($$$ extra), and the Vitodens-lookalike (Wolf) is mounted in an attic utility room.

Constantin

The flue is interesting...

... I am not sure what is underneath, but I presume this is a concentric intake/exhaust system. Presumably the fasteners only penetrate into an insulation layer...

Constantin

Another illustration of the old and new...

Here, the Propress seems to have been used primarily when the unit was commissioned. The later drain for condensate was retrofit the "old fashioned way", i.e. soldered. As you can see, even the condensate in this region seems to be "hard" :-)

Constantin

And now for something non-heat related...

... when I was visiting some friends, this caught my eye.

Someone is renovating their house. This being Germany, they need a crane to do so. So, here are some folks trying their best to get the crane past the house into a back yard, without destroying the common fence. Hilarity ensues!

Constantin

To get the crane past the house, the shed, and the fence...

... the operator of the Kubota did some fairly interesting manoeuvres (up to 30 degrees in the air, with only the blade holding him in place). Yep, the whole thing is floating in that picture!

I'm not sure this is OSHA approved, and I bet they're thanking their lucky stars that the ground is frozen. Otherwise, they would have been up to the axles in delicious mud by now.

Constantin

... and here is the other end...

... with the identity obscured to protect the guilty. I'm not sure that a 4x4 is the safest means to push a portable crane into a back yard, but I guess the Kubota couldn't pull it on it's own. It seems as though they ran out of the metal bars they usually use to connect truck and trailer... so the 4x4 substitutes... let me step aside! :-)

Constantin

You're absolutely right!

I took a look at the MAN web site last night and it's apparent that this is a one-stage burner. On the outside, the packaging is is quite pretty. They (MAN) claim a blue flame, akin to gas when the thing is firing. What brands of burners do you guys prefer in the EU?

Weezbo

perhaps as you say they are stichers and what caught my .

eye are the two brass plugs with what looks like a visual "EYE" it would be interesting to know if these are related to proper testing amd maint...and just what thier reccommended procedures...might be

jerry scharf_3

vibration isolators

Daris,

I was just talking to the folks at Mupro this week. Leo said that it's the law in Germany that everything must be mounted with vibration isolators. Certainly rare to nonexistant over here.

jerry

hr

I remember seeing

a lot of mini "tower" cranes setting next to residential buildings, in Germany. Seems like a smart way to move materials without tying up the street, front yard, or neighbors right a way.

I imagine it is very important when all the building products are concrete, stone, brick, and tile. Around here they use minimum wage (or lower) labors to move heavy stuff

May be a good business to get into in this country. Plenty of tight cities could take advantage of a small 360° crane like that.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Darin Cook_3

Jimmy

I can't say that I have spent much time in private residences in the UK. I have spent time on military bases and hotels and the like. Aestetics is more important in the home for sure. I was at Waterbeach Barracks last year just above Cambridge in England. The housing unit they gave us had all exposed copper running through out the apartment to all the panel rads. We did see something that maybe you have seen in your travels. Each apartment had its own OPEN water vessel and then gravity fed to all the fixtures. There was a legionella outbreak at the Sargents Mess while we were there. Is this open water tank a common way to plumb houses or apartment buildings? It seems this could have the potential to make alot of people sick and is just asking for trouble. By the way, I did get to make it up to Edinburgh in my travels, there are alot of pretty girls in Scotland.







Darin

Constantin

I think you hit it on the head...

...cranes have their places, particularly in areas where the wages are high and hence there is a need to maximize productivity. In the US, labor rates are generally lower and unskilled workers can be easily hired on a as-needed basis. Were the labor rates to go up in the US, I bet you'd see more productivity tools over here also. Why else have pro-press fittings, T-drills, and other time and labor savers, for example?

One issue with cranes though is that they have to have enough room to do their work. At our jobsite, a crane would hav been of marginal benefit, considering that the booms movements would hav been severely hampered by large trees. What I've also seen (and liked) in the EU were small ladder-like systems that have a motorized bucket for house-movers. Such a tool could be set up in most job sites and eliminate the need to carry heavy construction materials up through the house.

Darin Cook_3

Jerry

My last three pump panels I have used all cushioned unistrut hangers. It makes a huge difference in vibration and noise transmission. The pump sounds are basically cut to zero. It is definetly more money about( $3.00 for a 1 1/8" clamp ) but well worth the added expense. It also brought to our attention how overpumped some systems are. Alot of the time a 007 or 15-42 is way too much pump. We are using the 15-58fc primarily now unless we have to go to a bigger pump.
One pump three different speeds , it makes alot of sense.







Darin

Ragu

A Blast From The Past

Regarding the quality of the jobs shown in the pictures from your trip FARFENUGEN!

Mark Eatherton1

Touche...

As our good friend Ken Secor would say, "Leave it to the Euros to screw up a perfectly good concept..."

ME

Mark Eatherton1

Colorado Crane

Here's one (a FIRST for me) that was on the monster lodge were doing up in the mountains. They used this thing after the shell was built to place massive beams on post clear down in the basement by drilling holes through the roof and floors and dropping chains through the holes and wrapping them around the beam. The crane is controlled by a wireless remote control. They had to set a generator for the crane only it draws so much energy.

They were demonstrating it one day when we were up there.

ME

Constantin

Yowzers!

It just goes to show that there are some tasks that require mechanical assistance, no matter what. Thanks for sharing!

Jimmy Gillies

Darin.

Sorry I did not get back to you before now. Yes, you may well find exposed pipes in houses for the military etc. But bill paying homeowners would not accept it, they don't want anything that will collect dust. I guess it's the same the world over, a cheap installation will always have lots of exposed pipes.
Yes, there are still quite a lot of houses and flats with low pressure plumbing systems you have detailed, but they are not prone to legionella! However most new houses and flats have pressurized systems now, if they have gas heating it mostly is a 'BAXI' type combi boiler, giving direct hot water and no indirect tank or heater is fitted.

Ah, the pretty Scottish lassies! Darin, they can break your heart and make a laddie spend money(as a younger man I may even buy a pretty girl a drink, but she would need to be very pretty and she could then have a wee look up my kilt!)
Thanks for reading.
Regards.
Jimmy (Scotland)

Jimmy Gillies

Constantin.

> I took a look at the MAN web site last night and

> it's apparent that this is a one-stage burner. On

> the outside, the packaging is is quite pretty.

> They (MAN) claim a blue flame, akin to gas when

> the thing is firing. What brands of burners do

> you guys prefer in the EU?

Jimmy Gillies

Constantin.

Most of the oil boilers we fit have Riello burners and there are very good and when we replace a burner we'll use Monoflame. Both these burners are Italian, who export lots of plumbing/heating to the UK. I think about 50% of all the brassware made in Italy comes into the UK.

I love going to Italy and other EU countries, we are very lucky to just jump on a plane to sample other EU countries. You know something, going to any EU country you will find the people lovely and very friendly. I would advise anyone to travel to any part of europe, you'll have a ball.
Thanks for reading.
Regards.
Jimmy.

Jimmy Gillies

Flue system.

That looks like a coax flue system, twin flue.
Also the boiler looks like a combi type boiler gas fired wall mounted, providing instant hot water with a internal SS heat exchanger. Very common here in the UK.
Regards.
Jimmy.

[Deleted User]

The same question I

have asked for years. NFPA 31 7.5.15.2 approves multiple tanks (more than 2), w/ single fill, up to 1,375 gallons (5,200 liters). Local codes & current installation practices seem to be the prime impediments. Too bad.