Pilot Outage: How often do you find this?

gasfolk

Anyone else seen this:

"Hard-to-light" pilot sounded like a torch from outside the boilerroom (the "only way" to keep pilot from "daily blowing out from drafts." Thermocouples fried every couple of years or so.

ECO wiring: 39 inches (18 gauge) to left-side junction box (including a high resistance splice from corroded wire ends), then 109 inches (14 guage) to right-side aquastat (wire looped around three sides of the boiler). Total length = 184 inches. Valve manufacturer recommends maximum 59 inches total (in this case, 36 for thermocouple and 23 for control wiring).

Solution: Moved the stat to the near side, shortened the ECO wires by 119 inches, substituted 12 guage wire, and turned pilot down. Now lights cold in less than 30 seconds. So far (two weeks) a steady, quiet (but audible) pilot.

Makes you wonder about that apartment building with all the pilots going out. Anyone else find this situation?

gf

gasfolk

36 inch thermocouple PLUS...

Anyone else seen this:

"Hard-to-light" pilot sounded like a torch from outside the boilerroom (the "only way" to keep pilot from "daily blowing out from drafts." Thermocouple (glowing cherry red) fried every couple of years or so.

ECO wiring: 39 inches (18 gauge) to left-side junction box (including a high resistance splice from corroded wire ends), then 109 inches (14 guage) to right-side aquastat (wire looped around three sides of the boiler). Total length = 184 inches. Valve manufacturer recommends maximum 59 inches total (in this case, 36 for thermocouple and 23 for control wiring).

Solution: Moved the stat to the near side, shortened the ECO wires by 119 inches, substituted 12 guage wire, and turned pilot down. Now lights cold in less than 30 seconds. So far (two weeks) a steady, quiet (but audible) pilot.

Makes you wonder about that apartment building with all the pilots going out, they can't all be defective.

Anyone else finding this situation?

gf

Unknown

gasfolk

Some questions for you.

Hard-to-light" pilot sounded like a torch from outside the boilerroom (the "only way" to keep pilot from "daily blowing out from drafts." Thermocouple (glowing cherry red) fried every couple of years or so.

WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT THE DRAFTS? HAVE YOU DONE A COMBUSTION ANALYSIS ON THIS EQUIPMENT?

ECO wiring: 39 inches (18 gauge) to left-side junction box (including a high resistance splice from corroded wire ends), then 109 inches (14 guage) to right-side aquastat

WHAT IS AN ECO DOING WIRED INTO AN AQUASTAT? IT SHOULD BE WIRED TO SHUT OF THE MILLIVOLTS TO THE MAGNET ASSEMBLY IN THE EVENT OF HIGH TEMPS IN EXCESS OF HIGH LIMIT (AQUASTAT SETTING)

(wire looped around three sides of the boiler). Total length = 184 inches. Valve manufacturer recommends maximum 59 inches total (in this case, 36 for thermocouple and 23 for control wiring).

THE THERMOCOUPLE SHOULD NOT BE WIRED INTO THE CONTROL WIRING. ARE YOU SURE YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A THERMOPILE (POWERPILE) SYSTEM????

Solution: Moved the stat to the near side, shortened the ECO wires by 119 inches,

WHAT KIND OF ECO IS THIS IS IT INTO THE BOILER OR A STRAP ON?

substituted 12 guage wire, and turned pilot down. Now lights cold in less than 30 seconds. So far (two weeks) a steady, quiet (but audible) pilot.

Makes you wonder about that apartment building with all the pilots going out, they can't all be defective.

Anyone else finding this situation?

I AM SORT OF CONFUSED AS TO WHAT YOU REALLY DID MAYBE IT IS JUST ME. IF YOU ARE QUESTIONING IF OTHERS FIND JOBS SCREWED UP THE ANSWER IS YES EVERYDAY.

gasfolk

Tim

WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT THE DRAFTS? HAVE YOU DONE A COMBUSTION ANALYSIS ON THIS EQUIPMENT?

Multiple prior service calls, by good techs, couldn’t find a cause for the pilot outage and so “drafts” were suspected but never proved (how do you prove a draft?). Pilot ok now, so drafts don’t appear to be an issue. Combustion check was ok last fall. Any reason to repeat it now as opposed to the coming fall?

WHAT IS AN ECO DOING WIRED INTO AN AQUASTAT?

ECO leadwires connect the thermocouple to the safety high limit control. (A separate aquastat provides operating limit control.)

THE THERMOCOUPLE SHOULD NOT BE WIRED INTO THE CONTROL WIRING.

Leadwires for the ECO, which is in series with the thermocouple, come off a screw-in adapter at the power unit.

WHAT KIND OF ECO IS THIS?

High-limit, into the boiler.

IF YOU ARE QUESTIONING IF OTHERS FIND JOBS SCREWED UP

The question is how several good techs, metering voltages, etc, didn’t pick this up sooner. Swapping out thermocouple, limit control, and valve, without improvement (all originals reinstalled, and no problems since ECO rewiring). It would have been nice to find it sooner, and clearly, testing could have identified the voltage drop in the ECO circuit if the adapter had been unscrewed and tested, but these were good techs and they didn't find it. Seeing the cable running around the boiler triggered the reassessment. So who installed this? How did several good techs miss it for so long? Wanted to throw this out for others to consider, hoping something in the story might be useful and perhaps save someone a little time and hassle. Is this common or perhpas just a rare exceptional occurrence.

Anyway Tim, I know that you know this topic way better than I ever will, and I appreciate your concerns for doing things right.

gf

Unknown

gasfolk, hopefully it is

not a normal occurence. My concern for the testing is that things can change from the Fall check to when you arrived. I think you have solved the problem, but a combustion test sort of lets us sleep better at least that is what I find. Good job and whoever made this mess should be shot.

By the way if the gas valve on this job is a redundant valve (dual seated) you can eliminate the ECO. The ANSI standard states that if a redundant valve has been installed after the fact of an ECO previously, the ECO can be eliminated. Check with your company policy on that and also local codes but that is the national standard.