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panel rad system piping options

clammy
clammy Member Posts: 3,094
I,m looking at steam to hot water change over and was planing to remove the old recessed steam rads closing the recesses and install panel rads .I,ve done all my heat lose calc and know what i need i am thinking of do a home run system with 1/2 pex a pex running from a radiant manafold all the rads will be equipted with flow setter and trv with a internal by pass in the rad connections now i'm install a gb142 with the outdoor reset on constant circ my question is if the bypass is equipted on the rads do i really need a pressure diff on my manifold and am i better off using 2 manifolds and pumps instead of 1 manifold consisting of 13 connection .The home in question is getting a good sized add a level and the construction of the existing homes 1 st floor is brick with furing and plaster not much insulation on first floor and piping in copper would really creat some added renovation work that could be avoided by using pex and manifold .Any thoughts or comments are more then welcome i,m still ironing out all my options on design so all ideas are more then welcome .thanks and peace clammy P.S. Happy Easter
R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
NJ Master HVAC Lic.
Mahwah, NJ
Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

Comments

  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    An ideal tube for

    homeruns would be the Watts Radiant Onix.

    I'm not sure why they don't promote it for this use, but.

    It provides no expansion issues. No noise from rubbing on framing members, very easy to snake through retro fit areas. It's a better insulator than pex so more of the BTUs get to the panel :) It would allow easy installation and a workable loop for removal and installation as Siggy shows.

    I saw some Onix samples with a stainless steel braid around it. This would make a nice looking and bullet proof covering, where it comes out of the floor, since pex used like this would be subjected to UV breakdown.

    Anybody from Watts Radiant listening? Time to show some panel radiator installs in the sales lit.

    hot rod

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  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    Nice read....Thanks .

    Clammy, hot rod posted another editorial a few months back on two pipe arrangements single pipe arrangements and that article also has a lot of very credible and accurate advise that pertains to what you are asking....did you see a post of mine about the same time of a Taco pump block ,in a log cabin lashed up 60 foot away from the buderas with buderas pannels and trv's ? something along that line allows near constant circ,remote station larger delta T's OR and relatively simple connections ...
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718


    Clammy, if your running supply and returns to each rad, you dont want the diverter valve on each rad. Then you can do one differential by pass at the manifold.

    Edit: In that article, figure 8. That almost how you'll do it, but that doesnt show constant circ. Thats why you'll need the diff by pass at the manifold.



    PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,094
    thanks

    I was sort of thinking too use embassy systems manifold i know not many are to impressed with them but i've used there manifold a few times many years ago and still have no leaks or promblems and the plus i believe there manifolds are easy to increasing the amount of circuits and the flow setter are on each manifold connection might mke it a bit easier to adjust flow to each panel i wasn,t really thinking about remote manifold the home isn,t that large heat lose of about 68,000 btus.The watts oxian was a
    thought but i really am going to have to take a look at there manifld it's been a while since i've really checked the product catalog .I,m always open to your thoughts thanks for the tvr by pass info ted and hot rod i,m going to take a good look at the watts tubing i did have a couple of thoughts about the exposed pex and uv rays and i really do like that extra flexablity of oxian 3 but around here all they carry is the 3/8 and 1/2 would be a special order from what i was told and i would have too do a little more math to see if 3/8 would supply enough flow some rooms loses are about 5000 to 7000 btu's and there no room to upgrade insulation on the existing 1 st floor with major renevations which ain't happening .I still have at least 1 month to come up with my complete lay out and i still have to remove the existing a/c and re route all the soon to be down runs .lucked out on the a/c installed 4 years ago and with the removal of the duct to a/c the basement it should no promblem cool the whole home .PS on my advise the second floor out side walls shall be 2 x 6 framing with a tyvek wrap so heat lose/gain on the second floor will be a bit lower then with 2 x 4 framing every little bit makes a difference thanks to all happy easter again everybody ready to munch peace clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    One pipe...

    WhenI did my own home, I did so with one pipe venturri fittings that I "made" myself to accomodate the 2" centers going to the panel radiators (Buderus). I sized everything based on an entering water temp of 140 degrees F, assuming I'd be using a 40 gallon water heater (dedicated) for providing heat. It's been 6 years now, and I LOVE it.

    One single 3/4" copper piping running the perimeter of the house with radiator branches coming off in each room.

    Kind of a throw back to the old days, but works like a champ. All the old books warned against using two diverter/venturi fittings right next to each other, but it works like a champ. I'd do it again. In fact I have done it again!

    Here's an exploded view of the fitting prior to assembly showing the Nibco venturi fittings in their positions.

    I should probably mention that flow would be from left to right. The first insert fitting is a 3/4" fitting X 1/2"C reducing coupling that I clipped off, and the second insert is the Nibco insert venturi fitting. I wanted the water to see a "fat obstruction" in the line on the inlet. Maybe I should patent this thing eh...

    ME
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    You could easily

    move 20,000 BTU/ hr through 3/8"

    30 degree delta t is key 1.4 gpm, 140°, 4.3 feet of head per 100 feet of tube, 4.3 fps. According to Siggy"s HDS.

    With that total load you shouldn't have any zone over 20K?

    All you need are the Onix sweat adapters to go onto your Embassy manifold. Happy heating, and Easter.

    hot rod

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  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    i just like Mark's idea and wnaa save it *~/:)

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