Bosch tankless, problem....JohnNY

JohnNY8

I am a registered service agent and installer for Bosch.
I field at least two calls per week from DIY’ers that buy the unit from Home Depot and install it themselves only to have it sit inoperable for one reason or another.
In many cases, the units are being installed in a very unsafe condition.

I typically hear stories from people spending days on the phone with tech support, and still no hot water.
I would love to hear some of those phone calls.

When telephone tech support isn’t working out, my number is given (in my area) to the people who are having trouble.
I always quote my prices for the service first, which is easy because usually Bosch has narrowed the problem down to one or two things already, and invariably, I never hear from the people again.
I have no idea what happens after that.
What I do know is that the problems are always related to venting and fuel supply.

The last call I got today was from a gentleman who said he understood why I have to bill him for my time, but he was already into this heater for about $1,000. He couldn’t pay me to come out.
The last thing he said was “You know, they hand you a box and tell you ‘Read the instructions’!” and he hung up.

My comment is this:
Why are 150,000 btu fuel-burning pieces of equipment being sold to homeowners?
Who is being served here?

Are we waiting for a fatality, or if there has been one already, what will be the magic number before we put a stop this practice?


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Jack_21

That manuf is being served

I spoke to the chief tech rep for the "on-demand" manuf who supplied HD a couple years ago. I asked how it was going with them. He said business is thru the roof. he then offered that they had to build a new building and hire 4 people to handle the returns (which I believe were subsequently sold via the internet). Hell of a way to run a railroad, IMHO. Rinnai is looking for service agents. They do not sell thru the "big boxes".

jim lockard

Rinnia

I agree with you Johnny, I just installed my 1st Rinnia tankless heater and do not think that DIY's should be installing this product.I understand that some DIY's build rockets for a living but we have had 2 of them blow up too. Best Wishes J.Lockard

JohnNY8

Rinnai

Do you have any contact info for the Rinnai rep?

I've installed several of their products with good results.


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Constantin

A couple of thoughts come to mind...

.... John, I hear your frustration when it comes to homeowners buying stuff at HD or Lowes and then discovering rather belatedly that they're totally in over their heads. But, instead of giving up, they clog the tech support lines before being referred to you. Yet, they still don't give up their penny-pinching ways and want something for nothing... some people will never learn... some people should never be allowed to become one's clients.

In my mind, most companies that sell even moderately-difficult-to-install equipment via HD or Lowe's simply sit on time bombs. Given the thin margins in the business, I do not see how the insurance risks, returns, etc. can be covered. Never mind shrinkage, damage in transit, etc... I wouldn't go the big box route if I was a small businessman dreaming of new distribution channels for my goods if I could help it...

Furthermore, I wouldn't limits my objections to such equipment sales for 150+kBTU input ratings. I would start asking questions with any indoor gas appliance. Most homeowners aren't qualified to install them... so why even sell water heaters or replacement gas parts to someone w/o a proper license to install them?

Scott Gregg

You already said it!

The "GOOD" tankless companies already specify that only qualified contractors install their products. Companies like Bosch sell on the web to go direct and cut the profit of the wholesaler and contracor out of it, making them less expensive. The only reason a HO buys from the web is to cut out other peoples profit without any regard for what that profit covers.

The better compaines specify that if a licensed plumbing or heating contractor does not do the installation, the warranty is void. That is how it should be on these products. Any that do not do not warrant our support at all. Let Home Depot fix it! If you get a call, advise them to return the unit and then sell them a nice Noritz or Rennai unit and put it in right.

Jack_21

Where are you from in NY

There is one fellow for the city/island and another for upstate. If you go to www.rinnai.us I think you will find the rep #'s on the site. Let me know where you are and I'll get it to you or if you'd like to send me your contact info I'll get it to the regional mgr and the rep.

Jack_21

Jim, Care to elaborate on \"blow-up\"?

Please!

JohnNY8

I'm in Manhattan but I also serve Essex county in NJ.

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Bruce M.

Rinnai Web Site

Here is the information you want:

http://www.foreverhotwater.com/

Jack_21

Your rep in the area

is Chris Morley. good guy. I cannot lay my hands on his number right now though. The NE regioanl mgr for the water heaters is Dan Driscoll. also a good fellow. He is at 404 386-8252. give him call and he will put you in touch with Chris. If I can help you in any way, drop me a note.

jim lockard

Sure

Jack --Just my way of saying that even the pros do not always get it right. Much less the folks that attempt it on the weekends. I think the biggest mistake is giving the DIY's the false confidance of sizing and running gas lines. These water heaters require alot of fuel gas (Rinnai is 180,000 btus) Which in many homes requires that you go back to the gas meter with a 1" pipe or larger @W.C. pressure. Jack do you believe that the average joe homeowner knows the differance between W.C. fuel gas and 2 psi fuel gas systems, or why he can not connect a natural gas appliance to LP? When the Natural gas appliance is on sale. Best Wishes J.Lockard

jim lockard

Ferguson Ent.

Sells the Rinnai product in my area.

Jack_21

I'm with you all the way

I've represented Rinnai in New England since '91. I'm just sensitive to any reference to "blow-up" on any of my products. I completely agree that no gas appliances should be sold to diy channel. The diy'ers do not have a lock on the gas line sizing issue though. The number one installation error with on-demand water heaters is improper gas line sizing, as has been discussed on this board. Thanks for the clarification. Best wishes!

jim lockard

Sadly

Jack-- It will take more then a few nasty "accidents" to get the people in power to understand. J.lockard

Bart_2

It is a shame

But the only home heating appliances that are restricted to pro's are scorched air units. Just last week I went to a job where a customer purchased a 200k NTI Trinity online and 3000 ft of barrier tube and handed all the materials to a handyman. When I got to the job the installer had installed the tube and the Gyp at around 700' per circuit, and jumped the PG&E gas meter set and fed the house with High pressure (50psi) nat gas. The boiler piping was what you would expect from a first year apprentice, just goes to show people are trying to blow themselves everywhere!