Ultra or Munckin?????

BostonGC

What are your thoughts? We need a small boiler to run DHW(superstor) and a small hydroair unit(50k BTU). The other thought is just to throw in a cheap 80% boiler and wait for this "new" stuff to settle down a bit? My plumber says ultra or peerless cheapo, munckins need to be replaced in 6 years, but will go any way.(disposable boiler? good thing they ship UPS!) Others (here and elsewhere) seem to say good things about the munckins. My buddy has one trouble free for some time and cut his bills consdierably. Efficeincy seems to be about the same. I think the munckin is less $$ so if equivalnet, I'd go in that direction. But don't like waking up without hot water!!

Dave Stroman

I vote for Trinity.

Dave in Denver

Mark Eatherton1

Dave...

Are you seeing the "mouse turd" syndrome in the combustion chamber like the Munchkin? Have you done a 1 or 2 year tear down inspection on the fire side yet? It's supposedly the same HXer, just wondering if its tied to the HXer or the burner technology employed.

ME

Weezbo

Mark....i think it is because of \"overfire\"...

even though it is modulating ....i think it is over temping the firebox with condensate venting and condensing return waters...that is my best guess.

Dave Stroman

Have not tore any of them apart yet. Like most American home owners, they will probably not have it done until they have no heat. I'll bet they are no different than the Munchies.

NTI is redesigning the Trinity's. They used to have 3/4" copper running down the back and out the bottom. They rotated the HX 90 degrees and now have 1 1/4" taps on the side, just like the Munchies. They also went from the cheap, simple on/off fan switches to a pressure sensing device. This will tell the control what the actual pressure is and allow the fan speed to increse if the HX begins to get clogged up with the "turds". NTI says that if you run the boiler in condensing mode for a while each day it will tend to wash the HX out. LP boilers will probably have more of an issue that natural gas. Trinity has built in outdoor reset with DHW priority. No problem to run in condensing mode unless you use the priority feature. The older controls would lock out and ignore a call for DHW if the boiler hit it's high limit more that 5 times during a DHW call. Well, with the Lockinvar (Bradford White) indirects that we used on some jobs, it would hit high limit with no problem. We had to disable the reset and prioity run a hot boiler. Will not condense much now. The newer controls can turn this problem off.

Dave in Denver

Uni R

Trinity

And according to their specs, the two larger models, the 200 and 400, both modulate down to 25K BTU input giving them 8:1 and 16:1 modulation ratios. The 400 actually modulates down lower than the 150 which is their smallest model.

Randy Tibbits

I've been thinking about going to the ultra. My price on a ultra is nearly the same as a munchkin with vision one. The ultra comes with an outdoor sensor as part of their package. The ultra is much more compact and streamline.

Floyd_7

Everybody here knows what my vote will be....

The Ultra boiler is in my mind a much more solid choice than the Munchie or the Pinnacle.... of course it is a bit more money, also.
So far my experience with this boiler has been great.... there have been a few issuses, such as the plugs leaking, and a problem with power afecting the control modules.... but these seem to have been corrected.
I have taken the covers off of the combustion chambers of boilers that have run for 1 yr. nonstop and they look very good.....
For a gas boiler these have been about the only boiler that I have installed in the last year....
WM has been very helpful and I have a very good dealer and Rep. behind me... to me that is half the battle.

Floyd

BostonGC

so sounds like nti is the best bet?

Unknown

answer me this....

Floyd,

You have a lot of experience with the Ultra....

Why is the condesate so acidic BEFORE it passes through the heat exchanger, but is nearly nuetral when it comes of of the exchanger. Are there anode rods inside?

How does the ULTRA maintain 94% efficiency at 195F?

Curiosity makes me ask.

Thanks,

Wheels

Floyd_7

Steve....

Those are some great questions, and probably way above me....
I do know what I have experienced.....
The boilers that are running in the pig barns run 24/7/365, they never turn off, just mod. up and down.....they also run avery good stream off condensate, as they are running with 100* return water temps. continuously.... I have checked them for pitting and find little.. I will try to get some pics of the combustion chamber and the bottom "catch can" where the condensate runs out. I am moving a one of them in the next few weeks and will be taking it apart to check it over before I fire it up... I will try to post some pics.
It is possible that the Alum. is somehow neutralizing the water.. at what cost to the boiler casting I donnot know...
The casting does seem to be fairly heavy in the areas that are in direct contact with condensate......
As for the high eff. at high temps. I haven't a clue how they do it, I only know that whatever is happening, that it works... I have gotten 98.6 comb. eff. results at 170.... I often see flue temps. below return water temps.......
There was a rather long discussion here a while back and Kal had some ideas about maybe the way the air went through the HX that made the boiler condense at high temps.
I do know that I have witnessed condensate coming aout of these boilers at well over 140 return water temps....
To be honest I have intentionally tried to beat the hell out of these boilers... I want to know that they will hold up also.... my reputation is at stake also... I do no advertising and all my business is word of mouth... I have to be confident of the products that I install......
So far I have installed this boiler in many types of ways and have not been disappointed.... they just keep on amazing me.....

Now if I could just break the code the get to the rest of the parameters...... :-)

The one million BTU boiler with a 10:1 should be fun....

Also wish I could get some info on the new Ultra Oil.... can't wait to see that.....

Floyd

Troy_3

Munchkin

Probably everyone here knows my boiler of choice is the Munchkin. I'm very happy with well over 200 installs. 4 seasons already gone on the oldest installs and going strong. I've not used Trinity or Ultra. I've ripped them apart and still feel confident in my choice. I completely agree that the backup support makes the difference. HTP has been great! Design and application and support will make any of the above boilers work well.