Convert to Hot Water

Steam-novice

Hi Everyone...thanks for all the helpful feedback, pro and con.

As usual, this forum is a superb way to learn and appreciate the knowledge of the heatinghelp community.

Much appreciated.

Steam Novice

Steam-novice

Convert to Hot Water?

Hey everyone...I have a one-pipe steam system, probably between 40-50 years old. An engineer friend suggests I convert to hot water. Any pros or cons to the conversion?

He's converted his system, and he loves it.

Thanks.

Mike20

Good Idea if you can afford it

Although the boys on this wall like steam heat, ( not that there is anything wrong with that) I think that if you can afford the cost of conversion with the re-piping etc. Hot water heat is very versatile and efficient.

For example water must be heated to 212 degrees before you can generate steam and provide heat to your home.

With a hot water heat system you can make heat with water that is only 120 degrees. This is a money saver on mild days and if you factor in that hot water heat is easier to zone than steam, you can wind up with a very economical way to heat your home. (Place bedrooms on one zone, living room and den on another and basement on a third- set each with individual programmable thermostat and provide heat only when the area is occupied) For the best results, have your engineer friend design the system for you and get a qualified plumber or HVAC contractor to install.– don’t forget to insulate all piping.


You should consider the purchase of a fully condensing boiler for ultimate efficiency
Good Luck
MG


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Steamhead (in transit)

I wouldn't convert it

Your engineer friend was either very lucky or didn't mention that he had trouble with his conversion.

Hot-water runs at over ten times the pressure steam does. With old pipes and radiators this is a sure way to make them leak. I know of several in the Baltimore area that turned into Swiss cheese when converted.

And depending on what radiators you have, they may not even work with hot-water. And if they will handle hot-water, they might be too small to do the job. For more info go here:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=22

Some engineers and contractors are quick to condemn a steam system. These are the ones who have little or no understanding of this type of heat. I have found that it's much easier to fix a steam system than to convert it, and involves far less risk. It's not just a matter of liking steam- it's avoiding headaches and angry customers.

The other side of Mike's argument is that given the same boiler, a steam system contains much less water than a hot-water system. So, given the same boilers, a properly operating steam system can approach the efficiency of hot-water while providing the same level of comfort. And if you want to control rooms individually, you can get Thermostatic Radiator Valves for steam just like for hot-water.

It's a fair question as to how much a condensing boiler in a converted steam system actually runs in condensing mode. On all but the mildest days, the radiators would probably need to run at such high temperatures that no condensing would take place. There goes your efficiency advantage- but you're still stuck with the extra complication that condensing boilers have.

And last but not least, a steam system won't freeze up in an extended power failure or fuel supply interruption the way hot-water can.

Best bet is to keep the steam. Try the Find a Professional page of this site to locate a good steam man near you. If you're in the Baltimore area,e-mail me.

Boilerpro_3

A few thoughts

If the system is only 40 to 50 years old then a converasion isn't as much of a risk as in older systems. However, why do you want to convert it? As Steamhead said, zoning room by room cannot get any easier than with one pipe steam. I takes about 10 minutes a radiator, at most.
Before looking at converting run a heat loss calculation room by room and check the radiation size. Most of the time, a structure has seen significant thermal upgrades in the past 50 years and those steam radiators are greatly oversized even for typical hot water use. On one one pipe steam conversion I completed, the radiation needed to run at only 140F on the coldest day of the year. Since conventional replacement boiler sizing requires a one pipe steam boiler to be matched to the size of the radiators, we would of had to put in a very large steam boiler, that would have short cycled, greatly reducing efficiency. This is the chief reason for the conversion. HOt water can use whatever size boiler matches the heat load and system usage pattern.

I am currentlly working on converting another one pipe system, however this system was installed wrong from day one and has seen many screw ups since then. In this case, conversion made sense. However, most one pipe steam systems I work with are generally best left steam, especially when the radiators would all have to be changed out because they are a steam only design. And the ease of changing to room by room zoning control is reallllly nice!

Boilerpro

dean_11

steam

I'm just a homeowner but I have one pipe steam heat. Two years ago we restored this system and after a full year of tracking fuel costs we have saved about 60% after the restoration than before. Converting to hot water was considered and explored along with forced hot air(what was I thinking). The cost estimates of both were significantly higher than the cost of the steam restoration. With the proper controls steam heat can. be extremely efficient and comfortable I would suggest getting Dan's books We Got Stem Heat and The Lost Art of Steam Heating (I did) and doing some serious research. You may be suprised at what you discover. Also my immediate neighbors all have forced hot air heat except for one who has hot water heat their fuel cost are all higher than mine. The neighbor who has hot water fuel cost is less than the others but still higher than mine. All the homes on the block are similar in size and construction.

Constantin

I agree with Steamhead

... converting from Steam usually only makes sense if the house is undergoing a gut job, with lots of insulation being retrofit, new pipes being laid, the walls being open anyway, etc. Under those circumstances, the marginal cost of going all new is pretty low and the payback is likely positive.

If you intend on keeping the interior of your home intact, a better bet is to find a steam expert like Steamhead to bring the steam system to top efficiency. Another thing to consider in the interim is to read Dan Holohans excellent primer "We Got Steam Heat" and the much more comprehensive "The Lost Art of Steam Heating"

lchmb

Hey Dean

Just curious but how is the comfort with that steam system? Do you notice a difference if you go to your neighbors house? Glad to hear that your so happy with your system. I think you made the best choice..:)

Dean_7

comfort

Big difference in comfort especially when compared to the neighbors with forced air. Cold and drafty in their houses. My neighbor's house with baseboard hot water heat is more comfortable about the same as mine. But that is what hydronic heat, both steam and hot water is, comfortable. Perhaps this tells it all my wife now wears t-shirts and shorts in the house all winter. Where she used to live with forced hot air she used to wear sweat shirts and sweat pants all winter.