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Burnham MPO

jackchips_2
jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,338
would you rather Burnham stop improving their product and advertising it?

Why not just go out of business.

There is no better, some as good, than Glenn from Burnham responding to problems here on the Wall and his company backs up what he says.

Your deal.

Jack

Comments

  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,404
    Burnham MPO vs Opus

    Why should we believe in the MPO, can someone please explain the OPUS? Burnham's history of introducing new products is not stellar. Where's the OPUS now?????
    Pete
  • Joe Brix
    Joe Brix Member Posts: 626
    Wasn't the Opus an import

    I also think the outragous weight and size did not help it. Maybe it was ideal for some large gravity systems, but I think today's condensing technology is going low mass, not high mass.
  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,404
    Was the OPUS-

    -an improvement? I agree Glenn @ Burnham is very responsive etc. But what will he say about the OPUS? Why should we buy into the MPO? What's their motto "This Time We Mean It"
    Your Hand
  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,338
    LOL

    Let the other players place their bets but don't put the farm on your hand.

    Remember the Edsel. A good company bounces back from mistakes.

    Jack
  • Mark_60
    Mark_60 Member Posts: 13
    .

    I have never heard of a problem with an Opus. They did not read the market well and it was disapointing in sales but it was and still is an excellent product. The MPO seems to be a nice product and they built something that their is a market for.

    Why be so negative, try one and get back to us.
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    The Opus and the MPO are different animals

    The Opus was sold under a different brand name, a different web-site, and so on. In other words, it was being sold as a premium appliance at a premium price and differentiated from all the other Burnham offerings. The MPO is perhaps a premium boiler, but it was launched as a Burnham product and presumably at a lower price point than the Opus Oil boiler (however, I wouldn't know actual trade pricing, this is just a educated guess).

    Given that the MPO offers a bevy of really neat features (like being able to withstand 100°F return water temperatures), I think this boiler has a much greater chance of success than the Opus. For one thing, Ron Jr. and Ken recently successfully wrestled a mere 650 lb (URGH!) model into a basement... while a comparable Opus weighs even more, if memory serves me correctly. :-)

    Furthermore, given that the Opus is still enjoying tech support (and perhaps even limited production), I don't think it would have been a "wrong" choice for a customer. After all, it too had a lot of really neat features, like a very high AFUE rating, among other things.

    Not every product that a company launches will be a runaway success, and that's OK.
  • Canasta Pete
    Canasta Pete Member Posts: 3
    Do not forget the V7

    I think they pulled the plug on OPUS befor it became the
    V-7 of not too long ago. How much does a mistake like that cost a manufacturer not only money but reputation. I noticed Burnham is quick to respond when a favorable post is up. Where are they now? I think they are basing their future on the MPO which I might add is copied from Euro-designed triple pass boilers. Now they market themselves as An American Boiler Company. Nice, now someone please step up from Burnham and explain the OPUS once and for all.
  • Will_5
    Will_5 Member Posts: 85
    What's there to explain?

    What kind of explaination are you looking for out of Burnham. I don't think there was any kind of product failure that led to it's exctinction, just a lack of application and misjudgement in the market. I think it is a pretty far stretch trying to link it to the V7.
  • I'm not sure

    what the point is that you are trying to make here Pete, but I will step up to the plate, as I always do, to address your questions. We have always used the term of being an American Made boiler and will continue to do so. We are the only U.S.boiler manufacturer than can state that all of their cast iron products are made in their own foundry. We have been known as "America's Boiler Company" for decades and recently have taken the name of Burnham Hydronics, U.S. Boiler Company, Inc. This name was adopted for reasons of corporate growth. All of the Burnham Holdings companies (same company...different corporate name) such as Burnham Hydronics (U.S Boiler), Burnham Commercial Cast iron, Burnham Commercial Steel, Burnham Foundry, New Yorker, Thermo Pride, Thermal Solutions, Bryan, Governale, Crown and several others are all individually operated and managed. All have experienced very good growth, not only in marketshare, but in product development.

    As Constantin and a couple of others explained quite well, the Opus boiler was marketed under a different name much the same as Toyota, Nissan and Honda market their Lexus, Infinity and Acura auto lines. This was done because it was quite a different product than we had ever produced before and due to the 90% effeciency and upscale features the boiler it was equipped with, the perspective buyers would probably be upscale homeowners. New products take years to develop, field test and certify and by the time this was released, the market tended to take a turn towards smaller, lower water content boilers. That's not to say that they don't function or work well. They have been performing flawlessly on the jobs where they have been purchased and installed. They are just rather big and have a large wter content. The boilers are made of welded steel construction and we still have some in inventory.

    We felt we needed to introduce a high efficiency cast iron boiler to better step up to the plate with a product of three pass design and high efficiency. All three pass design boilers tend to look similar in design and for that reason it is easy to make insinuations about copying the Euro design equipment. In reality the MPO is really quite different than the other Euro design boilers. First off, it designed, cast and produced right here in the good ole USA just as the Opus was. Better yet it was produced in our own foundry in Zanesville, Ohio. It is the only cast iron three pass boiler that has no more than a 4 to 5 degree temperature difference anywhere through the section assembly. If you could envision a test boiler operating for thousands of hours equipped with over 200 thermistors everywhere (sort of resembling a porcupine), then you would better understand the matter. It is also a breeze to clean and service and is the only one I know of with rear cleanout plates. It is truly here to stay, it is selling very well and many folks are on their fourth or fifth installation already.

    Once again, I'm not sure what the point is that you are trying to make here, but I hope I addressed your questions. It appears as though you have some negative opinions regarding my company. If there is anything I can do to change those opinions, I'd be more than glad to work it out somehow. Better yet take Mark's advice and try an MPO boiler. I assure you that your thinking will be somewhat different after doing so! Hope this helps!





    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Training

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Made me a believer

    We installed our first one on Monday , and it is a very impressive piece of engineering . It heated an indirect tank to 125 degrees in maybe 5 minutes . I really like the multi port header pipe , the low temp return water capability without external mixing , and the digital aquastat .

    Glenn , the aquastat was reading 200 degrees when the burner shut down and the heating zones running , but the temp gage in the boiler block was at 170 . Is this a normal number ?

    2 very minor issues came up . We had a tough time getting the back cast iron cleanout plate off , the plate that holds the 2 cleanout doors to the boiler . I really wish they would use a rope gasket instead of the high temp silicone . And if they would use studs and nuts instead of bolts to hold the oil burner in . Very tough to hold the burner and line up the bolts just right . Other than that , the install was smooth as silk .

    We're installing another one next week . Hopefully in a home with easier access to the basement .
  • Thanks Ron!

    I saw the pictures you posted of your first installation and as usual you fellas did a wonderful job! The temperature gauge reading is actually monitoring your mixed return water temperature as cooler return water enters the top rear port and is blended with hotter water from the rear section. The electronic aquastat is giving you the actual supply water temperature.

    The silicone sealant is used on the flue adapter plate to provide for a good seal. The initial thoughts were that there would be no need to remove the jacket due to the boiler's somewhat smaller footprint (all be it heavy though). I had to assist in changing a rear jacket panel that got dented by a distributor's fork lift. I have already put in a suggestion for fiberglass roping and am waiting for a response.

    There has already been a suggestion from several companies for studs, nuts and washers for the burner and rear cleanout plates. The difficulty with studs protruding from the boiler is that they tend to get damaged or can injure the person(s) trying to move the boiler around. We did configur the burner flange so that you can install the top bolt and drop the burner onto it while aligning the other two bolts.

    I have also addressed the surface rust that is apparent on the sections of that MPO-189. The sections came in from the foundry before we were ready to move them into our new manufacturing facility and were kept with shrink wrap around them outside for a little bit. What you are seeing was probably from condensation inside the shrink wrap. They are now stored inside and that should be a thing of the past.The new facility is up and running with everything under one roof. This building could hold about 8 football fields inside. Next door we also have a Shipping Warehouse-Distribution Center that could encompass about 5 football fields. A big commitment to ensure that you will get what you need...when you need it! Thanks again and keep posting those "Proud Wall" pictures!



    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Training

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Joe Brix
    Joe Brix Member Posts: 626
    I give credit to Burnham

    for comming out with the MPO. I don't see how Pete can be so biased saying it was a copy of some German brands. Who produced the first 3 pass? Pensotti, Biasi, NY Thermal's Odyssey,De Dietrich, all look to have a similar designs.
    Many companies come out with products that don't make it in the market. HTP products relabeled a Pensotti oil 3 pass boiler last year but seem to have dropped it. Burnham could have just painted the Crown Freeport Blue but I think they realized they needed a version with more features.
  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,404
    Burnham's Dedication to Quality

    Having sold close to 100 Burnham Boilers over the past several years...I found Burnham to be a stand-up company. I sold 3 Opus Oil Monsters and the only problems that occured were installer error. We no longer sell Burnham (corporate decision) but I found Dave Benham (rep) and the factory people very professional. Damn, they sell a good product and I lost a few customers over that decision. No complaints here Canasta Pete...
    Rick
  • That is some

    mighty strong silicone they use . We had to remove the flue adapter plate to stand the boiler up on that end .

    The studs and nuts would be a godsend . The new guy Danny was doing the burner and was taking a real long time to catch one of the side studs . So I gave him a hand . Man did it drive me crazy . If you can pass this info along , tell em I believe it'll be very rare that the MPO will be moved into a basement or other tight areas with the burner attached . Maybe if they could make the slot on the sides of the flange like they do on the top and just turn the burner into place . It would make our installs go a little smoother .

    I didn't think of the blended water effecting the temp gage . That is good to know . The surface rust hasn't been an issue since you suggested it be addressed in the V8 manual . I owe you a big thanks for that , and thank you for the compliment on our first MPO install . It's excellent news to hear the commitment your company has made to higher efficiency oil equipment .
  • Leo
    Leo Member Posts: 770
    Burnham

    When I got into the business I cut my teeth on the V7, we had a few hundered we serviced. They were one of the cleanest burning easy to service boilers. It was a shame they had the leaking problems but they had just opened the new state of the art foundry (no small feat in this country these days) and there was a glitch. Did they go bankrupt and leave everyone hanging only to come back under a different name, no way they even established a specific 800 number to address the problems. Glenn is always here as Mike Gordon was before him. Does he not always post, sure. It takes a gentleman to not get sucked into the negative. You ask an honest question Glenn helps, you bash his product and he lets it go. Given who signs his pay check I wouldn't expect him to bash his product. Let me add I presently work for a company that does not sell Burnham so I have no dealer loyalty to uphold.

    Leo
  • A.J.
    A.J. Member Posts: 257
    MPO in a direct vent

    Do you know when the MPO will be ready in a direct vent, Glenn ?
    Kupetz's Plb & Htg
  • Very close with this.

    > Do you know when the MPO will be ready in a

    > direct vent, Glenn ? Kupetz's Plb & Htg



    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Training

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Very soon!

    I was in the lab on Tuesday while in Lancaster and the Direct Vent versions of the MPO are in the final stages of cyclic testing. I will state that you are definitely going to like it!

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Training

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Thanks Rick!

    Dave has always spoken well of you as well. It's too bad that things changed with your company. Thanks for your continued support. It takes a real gentleman to come on here and say what you just said. Thanks again.

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Training

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,740
    Maybe you should stick to card games.....PETE

    The MPO is a Classic 3 pass cast iron boiler that will rank in there with buderus, Crown, et al. Seems like you have a vendetta with Burnham. What's up man? Spill the beans. Mad Dog

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Tony Massi
    Tony Massi Member Posts: 86
    Burnham MPO

    It looks like a good boiler. I heard the Burnham MPO Boiler is the "Peerless" of the Burnham Boiler Line.
  • Will_5
    Will_5 Member Posts: 85
    Peerless?

    Not quite sure of the point you are trying to make here?
  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,404
    I'll Gladly...

    Trade you our Peerless line for the Burnham line any day. That's why I sell all Buderus all the time... The Pinnacle has had many problems, most they didn't own up to.
This discussion has been closed.