Mystery Air

Steve Rockwell_2

Thanks Ron.

No pex - just old fashioned copper, ci rads and some galvanized piping as well.

Shouldn't the Amtrol air purger prevent this from happening after it was purged last year?

Steve Rockwell_2

Why is air getting in my system?

We finally turned on the Ultra 155 for heating duty a week or so ago, after using it for dhw only during the summer. Our summer gas usage was down 56% overall vs last year. Last winter ended up with usage down about 39% overall. Incredible. The system ran beautifully during its first winter last year, and I am so glad I have it with the way natural gas prices are heading.

This fall, the system, a mix of bb and ci rads, is suddenly full of air. Sounds like I do after a big intake of Mexican food. Lots of gurgling. We do have an amtrol vent attached to the expansion tank, which I thought would eliminate future air problems, and our great contractor, a disciple of Dan's, has it pumping away.

We haven't had any work done on the system. Why am I getting so much air in the system? Am I naive to think I shouldn't have to bleed the thing every fall?

A little help please.

Thank you.

Steve

Unknown

Sounds like

the system needs to be purged of air again . I try to maintain between 20 and 25 psi while doing it - any lower pressure and the air can still stay trapped in high spots .

By chance , is any of the heating done in pex ? If so , does it have an oxygen barrier ?

Doc Radiant

Just a few thoughts...

If you are using a diaphragm-type expansion tank, is the air charge correct (make sure diaphragm hasn't failed)? Don't forget that the tank must be isolated from system pressure to check air charge.

If using the old style steel compression type tank, do you have an airtrol fitting installed? If not, the air in your system may have come from the tank.

Aidan (UK)

Mystery Air

copper, ci rads and some galvanized piping

Hydrogen from galvanic corrosion? Are there corrosion inhibitors in the water? You can trap some of the 'air' in an upturned glass and try igniting it.

Unknown

From what I understand

about pumping away from the point of no pressure change , all the air should eventually work its way back to the boiler and out the air purger . How long it takes I really don't know . I haven't had the cajones to try it without purging yet . But , here's a true story . We installed a Peerless boiler in a customer's home , but didn't connect it to any heat source . The homeowner ran 2 zones of baseboard himself and connected it to the boiler - without any drains for purging . We went back a few weeks later to install an oil tank and wouldn't you know it , both zones were blazing hot ! All we used is the 3/4 tapping on the top of the boiler for air elimination .

Do you have a diaphragm expansion tank connected to the bottom of the Amtrol purger ? And is the vent on top open to let the air out ? And last , are the circulators after the Amtrol , pumping away from the expansion tank ?

don_156

I

have a question..just what is the recommend flow thru these air elimator to removed the air?

I mean when i think of castiron and big steel pipe I would assume that the fpm are lower.

So lets say the air elimator would recommend at least so
many fpm for the air to be move.

I only question this because with air and air filter its recommended to keep the air entering the filter around 350
fpm so the filter can do it job.

The reason I also question this because I have used them on
these med mass system and I too have gone back to manualy bleed and purge even with pumping away and no leaks.

Steve Rockwell_2

Yes


It's an amtrol tank, with diaphram. Haven't checked pressure yet. Will give it a whirl and report.

Thanks.

ScottMP

Steve

are there any auto matic air vents on the second floor ?

Even regular coin vents if old and leaking can laoow air into the system with the right circumstance's. If the system preasure is low that can create a negative preasure situtation on the second floor and aloow air to get in.

Scott

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Steve Rockwell_2

None Upstairs

There are no automatic vents upstairs, only the manual type for bleeding.

When bleeding, is it best to turn off the circ pumps, which are on constant circ?