90% Boilers

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Can understand your reluctance to change.

Please remember that many "spark and damper" boilers wind up with a standing pilot and no draft damper after a few years... No different than the old standard.

Manufacturers have managed to eke out the last bit of efficiency from traditional cast iron boilers by eliminating the pilot light, adding a draft damper and adding a "secondary" heat exchanger to recover some of the energy from the flue gasses.

Such boilers are just as complex as the REAL DEAL provided by condensing and modulating boilers. The 90% or whatever has almost no meaning with these boilers!!!! Even when replacing well-sized boilers in well-designed systems, the efficiency on the AFUE scale will be above 100%!!!!!!!!

Reliability is still an unknown with these boilers. If you want the highest expectation of reliability use a Vitodens. If you want the ultimate efficiency in "typical" American systems, I'd suggest a W/M Ultra (just beware of water issues with the aluminum HX). The new Buderus condensing/modulating boiler offers a unique control system designed to maximize efficiency by keeping supply temperature at a minimum.

Nearly every boiler manufacturer is offering condensing/modulating boilers. They're not dumb--they know the direction! Just too bad that they all rely on European components and technology.

Rick Rodriguez_2

Skinny on 90% hydronic boilers

With gas prices in the past reliability and pay back for reidential installations;I was not inclined to offer 90% hydronic boilers. Gas prices today is making re think my position. Have any suggestions for a reliable 90%.
Spark and damper will give 82-84% is it worth it.

thanks in advance
Rick

S Ebels

Common misconception on AFUE based ratings

If you look at the AFUE difference it would appear that you are going to save 8-10%. If you apply some intelligent design and system control to a typical old system along with a condensing and modulating boiler, it's in fact not uncommon for us to see reductions of at least 30%.

S Ebels

Common misconception on AFUE based ratings

If you look at the AFUE difference it would appear that you are going to save 8-10%. If you apply some intelligent design and system control to a typical old system along with a condensing and modulating boiler, it's in fact not uncommon for us to see reductions of at least 30%.

jeff_51

Buderous GB 142

quite a bit more money than a standard 85%, twice as much for the boiler, but you have to compare not just the cost of the boiler, but the total cost of the system install. I like to offer the cust both options. Suggest a hot water maker along with it, that really adds to system efficency since a seperate water heater runs about 72-75% and accounts for half the yearly gas bill. You are not just selling efficency, but comfort. You are not selling just a boiler, but a whole system. Put the whole package together and then go out and sell it. You may have to go back and tweak abit. This boiler is new to the states, but has a long and proven track record in Europe. There are US made high efficency boilers at less money like the Weil Mclean and others that have been out there for alot of years, so the bugs have pretty well been worked out of them. GOOD support from you supplier is just as important as a good boiler