Cave in!

Rodney Summers

Dave Yates (PAH)

Work safe - live longer

Replaced a sewer line in a factory today - 12' deep. Thank God we rented our own hydraulic shoring as the commercial excavator's trench box he'd rented was too wide for the ditch.

Macho attitudes being what they are, our guys often chide me about my insisting the use shoring - in every ditch. Well, today it paid off big time.

Early on & right after we set up the first four sections, we started replacing the worn through cast iron. About 18' of line replaced, the ditch just beyond our shoring caved in! It's always amazing to witness the spped with which that happens. I dug a dead man out of a ditch the second day I worked in the trades, so that's why I get picky about using shoring. When I worked for other employers, I refused to go into ditches that weren't shored properly & almost got fired once over that issue.

Then, later today, in the deeper part of this 300'-long trench, our guys finished a section and moved the shoring along. Minutes later the section that had been shored caved in.

Had we not used shoring today, tomorrow's Fathers' Day would likely have been very sad for two families.

Takes twice as long to get the work done, but it's worth every second to do it as safely as possible. Be careful out there. A 4'x4'x4' cube of earth weighs as much as a car.

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Leo

Terror

Dave Yates said,"Takes twice as long to get the work done, but it's worth every second to do it as safely as possible." In my days as a police officer we investigated an industrial accident that resulted in a death. The impact it had on the work force was as bad as an act of terrorism. There is no way to measure how long productivity was affected.

Leo

Ron Schroeder

The day before my first Christmas

my father was burried in a trench the hoe operator saw where he was standing and shoveled him out, the 17 yo kid tried to out run the cave in and it was too late by the time they found him.

Keith_8

Safety as a Priority

The older I get the more important safety becomes.

Why is that? Is it because I finally figured out that sometimes you only get 1 chance to make things right?

Recently we were awarded a project at a local VA Hospital. They require and enforce the requirements that anyone going into confined space be certified to do so. In addition any worker on the job is required to take the 10 hour OSHA training class. Money well spent.

This year I had 2 men injured. One lost the tip of his finger the other sprained his back. Both resulted in comp cases, lost time and family life disruptions. Both employees are normally careful and competent. Both are back to work, we all could have done without the experience.

I should have given the training last year....

Keith

I should

Gordy

Death

Dave when one witnesses a death on the job from an accident of any kind it completly changes your whole perspective on life, and on the job saftey.

Its weird to sit there, and have coffee with someone at break, 15min. later that same person is killed, 2 years to retirement. My experience was just that. It takes this type of experience to demacho the nay sayers on job saftey. Accidents happen FAST, and its to late after.

Seen one of our underground subs get popped for 250,000 by OSHA, working in a open trench with the box right there on the jobsite....How do you recoupe that kind of loss from stupidity.

Gordy

Dave Yates (PAH)

confined space

We handle a number of those while testing backflow preventers. To the best of my knowledge, we're the only mechanical contractor in our area who is in full compliance. Four gas tester, ventillation equipment, harnesed technician, tripod, hoist and an operator topside. Safety vests and traffic cones too.

We test in a number of wodow-maker pits (landfills where nasty gases displace O2) where our certifications are kept on record by the owners.

Yet, the water co does not designate who on their list of backflow testers (on the back of every notification letter) who is certified and, perhaps more importantly, who has the necessary equipment to be compliant. We lose work to those who send out a lone technician (often the owner) to enter confined space vaults and test backflow preventers.

I like Taco's motto & think it fits: Do It Once; Do It Right

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joel_19

scary

When i was maybe 18 I saw an electrition catch on fire because he got hit with so mutch juice from a 3 phase panel. i'll never even look at an exstension cord the same way again.

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Larry (from OSHA)

Thanks Dave

For doing the right thing and providing appropriate protection for yourself and your employees.

Do all your employees get trench training on a regular basis? Is there a designated Competent Person? Was the excavation inspected prior to allowing any employees into the trench? Were there ladders at least every 25 feet for a means of egress? I would be asking these questions and more to any contractor that I meet on trenches that I stop at. If I were a betting man I'd say that you would answer yes to the above. Seems so simple but not everyone does this every time. As you know, it only takes one time to be the last time.

I am very curious as to what type of soil you were working in? Sand, clay, etc. and what you called it - type b or c?

In case you did not know, there has been a national emphasis by OSHA on trenching for several years. We are required to stop at any excavation that looks deep enough and appears to have activity. Here in Minnesota there is always at least one fatality annually from a trench cave in. Nationally I believe there have been over 50 or 60 deaths last year alone.

The guys that tell me "I've been doing this for 25 years and never had a cave in" don't get much sympathy from me.

Thanks again for being a good employer.

Larry (from OSHA)

Gordy

I'm very sorry you had to go through that experience and lose a co-worker and friend.

I just spent all last week interviewing employees and management people dealing with the same type of loss. It has been an extremely difficult time for all involved, myself included.

I really feel like ranting to excess, but this isn't the place.

I've offered before and will again, if anyone ever has questions about safety issues, compliance issues, or whatever, I am available either here on the Wall or by email.

Larry

Gordy

Thanks Larry

This incident I referenced happened some time ago.... but is instilled in my memory forever, changing how quickly a human life can be there one minute, and gone the next in my eyes. There is no such thing as "Accidents" only incidents of preventable loss of life, and injury.

Larry do you specialize in construction, or industrial incidents?

Thanks for your offer.

Gordy

Larry (from OSHA)

We tend to use terms

that are familiar and infer an unpreventable event. Accident is one of those. I totally agree with you but find that I will use one over the other depending on who I'm talking to. When writing a report or dealing with authorities, etc. I use incident. I spent the week talking to co-workers of a fellow that died and always called it an accident.

In my experience over the last several years that I've been with OSHA I think they all have been preventable incidents.

My focus is mainly general industry and usually deal with the construction trades only when I see what we call an "imminent danger" such as trenches and fall protection issues. Fortunately most of my time is spent with routine inspections trying to prevent bad things from happening.

Dave Yates (PAH)

questions

Larry,

Yes to the first group. We move the ladder along with the shoring to facilitate ingress/egress. It's kept within the inner confines between shoring. Otherwise our guys would hsve to pass through unprotected areas.

The soil in question. You'd think soil beneath a factory floor where large pieces of heavy equipment and fork trucks running loads weighing several tons would be very stable - especially after being undisturbed for more than 50 years. However, the visual check I gave it revealed lots of clues as to it not being virgin soil: blast wires; large rocks; mecadam chunks; and layers that changed colors. The ditch had been open most of the week as the excavator progressed without so much as a ball of dirt falling. Red flags! Seeing it was fill ground only raised red flags regarding any stability. We held a safety meeting prior to starting, which is standard fare for any job of this nature. It was a mix of many things, but not the consistancy of clay. I'd classify it as dangerous due to being fill. Compacted fill, but fill "ground" none the less. I didn't sleep worth a damn the night prior to the work being done. BTW, we back up our shoring with plywood sheets.

Over the years, I've been exposed to many dangers that should have been avoided - either through my employeer's ignorance, intentional avoidance of safety measures that cost time, or through my own ignorance. Once I became the employeer, the responsibility for safety became a serious issue.

That said, I've never seen anyone from OSHA stop by a sewer ditch and, if they made a practice of visiting those job sites in the York area, they'd find more than a few contractors in willful violation. The one time OSHA visited a commercial job site we were working on (an old folks home), you'd have thought Atilla the Hun had suddenly appeared. Contractors were scurrying about trying to cover up safety violations. The roofers got hit the hardest - no safety harnesses on a very steep slope four stories up. The GC got nailed for not having safety barriers around the open stairwells (no stairs yet) and the electricians got hammered for frayed extension cords! No penalties for us.

I stopped by a sewer main installation at one of our customer's properties to check on the lateral depth. The ditch was 23' deep, right beside an electrical pole and there was a guy at the bottom, working by himself, installing the lateral and curb riser. No hard hat, but with all the other violations, that would seem rather insignificant! I asked him why he was working in a deep ditch without protection. He said his company had no shoring!

Giving folks the luxury of squatting on a pot is not worth dying for. Neither is testing a backflow preventer. I'd love to see those violating confined space entry in our area get compliant. I've invested thousands in safety equipment to help keep our employees safe. Even when the pit or vault tests OK, we still continue testing continuously and harness the employee entering.

Does OSHA have a training or safety video available for teachers? I'll be teaching college classes this year (and in future years) as well as some vo-tech classes.

Confined space and trench safety would be two areas worthy of a teaching to technicians. In the final analysis, we're each responsible for our own safety and have every right to refuse dangerous working conditions where safety measures would enhance safety.

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Scott Gregg

Way to Go Dave

for standing for something so important.

These stories need to be told at safety meetings. These are (Or were) real people just like your men. Too often the guys don't pay attention at safety meetings and these stories can wake them up some.

I used to work for a power plant boiler company. Big Big boilers, high places, confined spaces, the works. We had a pretty good safety program but still not enough of the guys took it seriously.

On one job, a Big Foster Wheeler boiler, steam drum level about 6 stories up, a kid moved a peice of steal decking to set a come along up. He did not put the steel back. Minutes later same kid triped on the deck and it ruined his day. He caught himself by the armpits in the hole. Nothing between him and the concrete but a prayer. A couple more guys puled him out and other than some nasty surface damage he was ok. The job was shut down by us while an investigation and safety check was done. He quit the next day.

This woke up a lot of the guys! Remember Honda's safety slogan from a few years back: "Stupid Hurts!"

Dave Yates (PAH)

high steel construction

I worked high steel one summer just prior to entering the trades. Nothing like walking a 2" ribbon of steel 80' up to give a guy the heebie-jeebies!

On a 55' high job, another guy & I were walking Butler roof panels out to begin assembling. We'd lay them down and then return to the stack set in place by the crane. I hear an odd noise and turned to ask Craig what that was - he was no where in sight. We were in the center of a 150' x 300' addition, so that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach told me to look down. Craig was splayed out on the ground! I hollered and the whole crew headed for their nearest drop point. When we got to Craig, he wasn't breathing and his coloration was dark. Our foreman immediately began CPR and revived him. As it turned out, he had only a dislocated thumb, which we figured had to have been because fresh ground had been brought in & not yet tamped.

I looked back up at that steel network & decided right then I was done walking the steel. We'd never once been harnesed or had a safety net. The foreman thought I just needed a day or three to get my nerve back and reassigned me to the masonry crew where I tended block. I got on the phone that night and called up a guy asdvertising for a plumber with six years experience. He cut me off when I told him I had no real experience. I called him again the next night with the same results! That kept up for four or five nights until he finally gave in and granted me an interview. He hired me. I'm here, quite literally, by accident.

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Maine Doug_42

Heavy stuff

>>>Be careful out there. A 4'x4'x4' cube of earth weighs as much as a car.<<<

And gravity never fails.

Larry (from OSHA)

answers

Somehow I suspected you go through all the right steps before jumping into a hole in the ground.

As far as the soil type, the standard has 3 classes: a,b & c. Previously disturbed is never type a, and so after that it comes down to how to do it right. If you use a box or shoring, then pretty much a no brainer, but if you slope, then soil type really matters. The standard goes into it so I won't. As far as plywood sheeting, that is a good idea, but there is a particular type that is required. Something about 13 ply birch or some such thing. Sorry I can't remember, but it isn't standard 3/4" lumber yard stuff.

As far as not seeing OSHA onsite anywhere you have been, I'm not surprised. If I recall correctly, Pennsylvania is a Fed. state and the staffing levels in the Fed system are, shall we say, less than optimal. The Feds I've met usually spend most of their time dealing with employee complaints and injuries/fatalities. Doesn't leave much time for routine inspections. (It is also what gives many of them some severe attitude issues.)(Those of us in state plan OSHA's are always happy to serve. Remember the old saying "I'm with the government and we're here to help!")

So the dude in the 23' deep trench - Where to start? I hope he is still alive. After you get deeper than 20 feet you need a protective system that has been designed and signed off by a registered professional engineer. Need plans onsite and tab data too.

OK, on to confined spaces. Sounds to me like you are again doing it correctly. If you are going to comply (and remember, OSHA enforces MINIMUM regulations) you need the permit, the tesing, the rescue system and plan in place, all that stuff, and testing atmosphere continuously is the only way to be in compliance. Sort of like "if you don't test, you don't know". (One of my favorite sayings)

As far as training, some of the best available is from the National OSHA Training Institute near Chicago. You don't have to be an OSHA type to attend. The OSHA excavation course is usually really good. For confined space, if you can find a class taught by David A. David you have found the very best in the country. I think he's from Texas but travels the country. I'll see if I can find a schedule for him. (He is that good) There are a few links for OSHA stuff that may be helpful. Here you go:

The PA area office might be a good place to start.

http://www.osha.gov/oshdir/pa.html

There is a free workplace consultation service provided by the state. I don't know what is available in your state, but the MN office does a good job. Worth dropping a dime.

http://www.hhs.iup.edu/sa/OSHA/index.htm

confined spaces info - here

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/confinedspaces/index.html

trenching info - here

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/trenchingexcavation/index.html


The OSHA Training Institute (OTI):

http://www.osha.gov/dcsp/ote/index.html

I hope this helps.

Larry

Dave Yates (PAH)

I hope

we get a chance to meet in person one day, I owe you a few cold libations!

My right-hand go-to technician/dispatcher/foreman/estimator is the Chief of the York County Haz-Mat team. He teaches safety at the national fire academy and locally to the fire dept. In addition, in his spare time, he teaches HVAC classes at night in our local vo-tech. He's a straight-shooter who doesn't hesitate to let you know where the rubber meets the road.

He'd be the first to tell me if we were outside the lines & I do my best to not get yelled at!



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