2 pipe gravity return system replacement

Gene_3

Check with Dan's books and I would also rec Peerless's and/or Weil Mclain's Steam Hand books for invaluable info, each system is different. If I'm following you right I would rec a happy medium betwen the header and water line but make sure your header is set up right and that you have a Hartford Loop. Maybe you could use solid blocks to get close, you said if you raise the boiler for water line to be right you have "trouble" getting 24" for header, how much trouble? an inch? or inches??

I don't think { and if I'm wrong others please correct me} you'd have as much a problem with a lower water line as you would with a shorter rise to your header.

leonardi heating & air

2 pipe gravity return replacement

i have a 2 pipe gravity return. all returns fall into wet return, so there is no traps only air vents at the bottom of return drips to remove air so steam can enter.
The water line is 33 inches from the ceiling of boiler room in basement, I figure this is the A dimension which I figure to be approx. 28 inches from the lowest steam supply in the basement.The boiler sit on a 9.5 inch platform.the header is built like the example in lost art of steam on page 51, the one that says never do this.
Question one...since the returns fall into the wet return and not dry, can i lower the water line? I dont think I would turn any wet return into a dry.If so why did the steam fitter put the boiler up on the platform.secondly,if i put a new boiler in I will have to pour more concrete on this platform to match water level line because a new boiler is shorter.Also If I raise the boiler up to meet water line I have trouble maintaining 24 inces for header room for steam to release.I have not experienced this type of return sytem, another company says to put in condensate return pump but this made no sense because I would have to add traps, please advise.also please advise on header configuration.I have 2 four inch tappings meeting in the middle up to a 2 inch main that tees into 2 2inch lines heading in two directions.In conclusion If i lower water line is more than 28 inch dimension A ok as long as i dont lift wet returns out of the water or am i missing something else on the wet return side of the system.Oh one more thing in lost art it tell of keeping these air vents out of the dimension B am I correct in not having to think about B dimension since I have no traps? FYI the exsisting boiler is a american radiator co.#2 ideal red flash boiler with a leak at the top of one of the sections and ins talled about 1936.I wish I could talk to a person due to the time this conversation could take.

c.t.kay

level

put in a false water line if the new boiler waterline is less than the old boiler water line.

clammy

agree

i agree with the last post build a false water line to mimick the old boiler water line raising the boiler may help a bit but that will lower your a dimmsion and possible make you lose the water seal on your drip which shall always disturbe your systems pressure diff and grossly affect steam distrubition.Stick with a false water line and over size your header and use a full size equilizer also install a vaporstat or you will be looking for trouble . I have done exacttly what i'm telling you and it work great peace and good luck clammy ps check everything you can so that you are totally perpared use a laser level to check that a dimension it's the most accurte and fast est no BS way plus it saves any guess work

clammy

Drop header

Another trick and a great way to really dry out the steam is a drop header it also makes it easier to reconnect to the existing header by giving you somer extra room wonder off the wall and i belive dan's got some photos of both drop headers and false water lines .peace clammy

leonardi heating & air

THANKS TO ALL.THE FALSE WATER LINE IS PROBABLY THE SAFEST THING I CAN DO TO GET THE BEST OF ALL WORLDS.AS TO HEADER AN INCH OR INCHES TO DROP IT WOULD BE INCHES AS MUCH AS SIX OFF.IM REALLY SURPRISED THAT I DONT HAVE 24 INCHES FROM A 1936 DESIGN AND HAVE A HEADER BUILT WITHOUT A CORRECT OFFSET.IF I ENGINEER THIS SET UP AS PER YOUR REC,THE BUILDING SHOULD HEAT BETTER THAN IT EVER HAS.THE VAPOR STAT IDEA MAKES ME COMFORTABLE TO BE ABLE TO CRANK IT DOWN AND HAVE ABILITY FOR SMALLER PRESSURE SET POINT AS NEEDED ,HOWEVER THATS A LITTLE MORE COSTLY.ONE MORE QUESTION TO YOU GUYS.IS THE BOILER ON THE PLATFORM NOW ONLY FOR RETURN LIQUID SEAL ? I DONT SEE IT IF MY WET RETURN IS ON THE FLOOR LEVEL.WHATS THE DEAL IF 'A' DIMENSION IS GREATER ON THIS FLOODED RETURN SYSTEM?

leonardi heating & air

CLAMMY,HEARD OF DROP HEADER BUT NOT HAVE APPLIED.IWILL LOOKINTO THIS.HERE IN DENVER I DONT GET TOO MANY OPPS TO REPLACE THE STEAM BOILER ANYMORE DUE TO MOST GUYZ CONVERTING THEM TO HOT H2O YOU KNOW HOW THEY ARE.THIS IS THE FIRST SYSTEM IVE RUN INTO WITH THESE FLOODED RETURNS WITHOUT TRAPS. IVE READ ABOUT THEM BUT WAS SURPRISED TO SEE ONE.ALSO WAS SURPRISED AS TO THE NEAR BOILER PIPING FROM 1936 WAS NOT WHAT I EXPECTED A FITTER TO DO IN THAT ERA . BUT IT HAS HEATED THIS BUILDING FOR ALL THESE YEARS.THANKS AGAIN AND ILL POST THE RESULT AFTER I DO THIS JOB AND LET YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKED OUT .OF COURSE IT WONT BE UNTIL AFTER ELK SEASON.LEONARDI

c.t.kay

dimentions

the heights of the piping was not as critical because of the lower firing rates.