Oxy versus Non Oxy barrier

Unknown

Most failures are a result of poor system design and installation, and using non-barrier pipe is one of those failures.

Concrete slows it down and temperature is a factor. but it's not a replacement for a proper O2 barrier. It just gets you past the warranty dates.

You can get o2 barrier pipe for about the same price as non-barrier pipe these days. Not using it is just plain silly.

Nikolai

Oxygen barrier pex is now recommended for all radiant floor and various other hydronic installations. My understanding for this is that oxygen molecules permeate through the pipe into the fluid within the boiler system. Any cast iron pumps, exchangers etc. are then prone to corrosion or oxydization.
Here is my question........If you have no cast iron at all within your system.....do you need oxy barrier pipe? Lets say we are using a Stainless steel condensing boiler with Bronze body pumps. Would any problems arise with non barrier pipe? The manufacturers of these boilers all recommend Oxy barrier pipe and will not warranty their boilers if non barrier is used.

Bob Eh?_2

Oxygen and heat.....

obviously cause ferrous iron components to rot away due to direct oxidation...

Stainless doesn't go for quite the same trip but the oxygen does agravate the passivation of the compound, albeit much more slowly, aggrevated by reactions with "trace" elements commonly found in the water. Ever notice that your stainless steel cutlery rusts? That is primarily due to heat, chlorine compounds (the most common "contaminant") and oxygen in the water (assuming you wash them ;-) ).

I was all bent out of shape about the answer to that question until I figured out that the cost of non ferrous pumps etc. was more than the cost difference for barrier pipe...

Then I discovered that in my area no one stocks the non-ferrous pumps.... Who wants a system that you can't get parts for right now!

I don't think I would want to take on a manufacturer's warranty exclusion while I froze either!

Bob

Bill Jirik,

Steve, I have put in many systems with non barrier tubing i.e. polybutelene and polyethelyne and presently use non barrier pex, none have failed in the past 18 years and they all have cast iron boilers and some ferrous piping and the tubing was imbedded in concrete.
Sure systems fail and it is easy to blame non barrier tubing especially if thats what you sell, but in my mind most failures are a result of poor system design and installation and even the best oxygen barrier wont help you in that case.

Steve Ebels_3

I've never heard

I've never heard anyone make a claim like that. Personally, my experience with non barrier tube has been poor. In several instances of boiler failure (rotted out) the only thing that the failure was attributable to was the non barrier tube.
There were no issues with excessive makeup water or contaminants present in the water to begin with.

For the mere pennies a foot difference why would anyone take the chance. Makes no sense to me even on a job involving tens of thousands of feet.

Constantin

I'm sorry, but I disagree...

I don't understand how a non-O₂-barrier system cannot lead to system failure in installations when they do not benefit from non-corrodable circulators, HX's, etc. Considering the marginal cost of going with O₂-barrier PEX, I also question the logic of using non-barrier tubing in heating installations.

Constantin

... more than anything...

... I think we'd discover that the pricing of "barriered" tubing is set such that a system cost with barriered tubing is slightly less or equal to a system that has unbarriered tubing. One system will have expensive circs, HX's etc. and cheap tubing, the other will have inexpensive circs, no HX's and sightly more expensive tubing. Thus, the manufacturers of barriered tubing reap most of the economic benefit of their invention.

Tony_23

I have seen

quite a few systems installed your way. Yea, they're still operating. Pumps go bad every 3-5 years anyway, right ? Expansion tanks, float vents, relief valves... nothing lasts forever, right ? Someday soon you may get to tear one down and see for yourself, but you probably won't believe it, will you ?

Thing is, I'm the guy who does the follow-ups and repairs to your type of systems so you never do see it. You just go merrily on your way, thinking nothing is wrong with your way because you haven't been called back.

Now I'm NOT taking a personal shot at you, even though it may seem so. I just have a few competitors in my market with your same opinion. They install for a few dollars less, and I wipe their a#%$s a few years later while listening to the sob story of a customer wishing they'd listened the first time.

There's my rant for the day